Facts by Andrew Crawshaw
Wild speculation by Tony Attwood
First, Andrew’s section:
As I write this (lunchtime on Thursday) we currently have 34 players over the age of 21 who are vying for inclusion in our 25 man senior squad which has to be named on 1st September. All but four are currently listed as being in the first team squad. 16 players are homegrown, 18 are overseas.
They are (in squad number order)
| Player | Squad No | Position | Currently part of first team squad | Homegrown |
| Mathieu Debuchy | 2 | RB | Y | N |
| Kieran Gibbs | 3 | LB | Y | Y |
| Per Mertesacker | 4 | CB | Y | N |
| Gabriel | 5 | CB | Y | N |
| Laurent Koscielny | 6 | CB | Y | N |
| Alexis Sanchez | 7 | Forward | Y | N |
| Aaron Ramsey | 8 | Mid | Y | Y |
| Andre Lacazette | 9 | Striker | Y | N |
| Jack Wilshere | 10 | Mid | Y | Y |
| Mesut Özil | 11 | Mid | Y | N |
| Olivier Giroud | 12 | Forward | Y | N |
| David Ospina | 13 | GK | Y | N |
| Theo Walcott | 14 | Forward | Y | Y |
| Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain | 15 | Mid | Y | Y |
| Rob Holding | 16 | CB | Y | Y |
| Nacho Monreal | 18 | LB | Y | N |
| Santi Cazorla | 19 | Mid | Y | N |
| Shkodran Mustafi | 20 | CB | Y | N |
| Calum Chambers | 21 | CB | Y | Y |
| Danny Welbeck | 23 | Forward | Y | Y |
| Hector Bellerin | 24 | RB | Y | Y |
| Carl Jenkinson | 25 | RB | Y | Y |
| Lucas Pérez | 28 | Forward | Y | N |
| Joel Campbell | 27 | Forward | Y | N |
| Granit Xhaka | 29 | CM | Y | N |
| Saad Kolasinac | 31 | LB | Y | N |
| Chuba Akpom | 32 | Forward | Y | Y |
| Petr Cech | 33 | GK | Y | N |
| Francis Coquelin | 34 | DM | Y | Y |
| Mohamed Elneny | 35 | Mid | Y | N |
| Deyan Iliev | 50 | GK | Y | |
| Matt Macey | 54 | GK | Y | |
| Jon Toral | 57 | CM | Y | |
| Cohen Bramall | 85 | LB | Y |
Clearly there is still a lot of work for the club to do in selling or loaning out some of these players.
Santi need not be included in the first listing of the 25 man squad as it is unlikely that he will be ready to play during the first half of the season but that still leaves 8 who won’t fit. At the moment it looks as though transfers for Debuchy, Gabriel and Lucas are about to be concluded leaving another 5 to go – more if we want to bring in any new senior players. All of these four players are Overseas.
I am sure that Arsène knows which players he is willing to let go but until 31 August he won’t be certain of which transfer deals will be concluded.
Now Tony’s speculation…
What I’ve done is taken Andrew’s table (and I am always so grateful that he does this – if I did it we’d have several under 21s sneaking in and other players left out who should be in).
Now I’m going to remove some to get us down to 25.
| Player | Squad No | Position | Currently part of first team squad | Homegrown | Removed |
| Mathieu Debuchy | 2 | RB | Y | N | Y |
| Kieran Gibbs | 3 | LB | Y | Y | Y |
| Per Mertesacker | 4 | CB | Y | N | |
| Gabriel | 5 | CB | Y | N | |
| Laurent Koscielny | 6 | CB | Y | N | |
| Alexis Sanchez | 7 | Forward | Y | N | |
| Aaron Ramsey | 8 | Mid | Y | Y-1 | |
| Andre Lacazette | 9 | Striker | Y | N | |
| Jack Wilshere | 10 | Mid | Y | Y | Y |
| Mesut Özil | 11 | Mid | Y | N | |
| Olivier Giroud | 12 | Forward | Y | N | |
| David Ospina | 13 | GK | Y | N | |
| Theo Walcott | 14 | Forward | Y | Y-2 | |
| Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain | 15 | Mid | Y | Y-3 | |
| Rob Holding | 16 | CB | Y | Y-4 | |
| Nacho Monreal | 18 | LB | Y | N | |
| Santi Cazorla | 19 | Mid | Y | N | Y |
| Shkodran Mustafi | 20 | CB | Y | N | |
| Calum Chambers | 21 | CB | Y | Y-5 | |
| Danny Welbeck | 23 | Forward | Y | Y-6 | |
| Hector Bellerin | 24 | RB | Y | Y-7 | |
| Carl Jenkinson | 25 | RB | Y | Y | Y |
| Lucas Pérez | 28 | Forward | Y | N | Y |
| Joel Campbell | 27 | Forward | Y | N | Y |
| Granit Xhaka | 29 | CM | Y | N | |
| Saad Kolasinac | 31 | LB | Y | N | |
| Chuba Akpom | 32 | Forward | Y | Y | Y |
| Petr Cech | 33 | GK | Y | N | |
| Francis Coquelin | 34 | DM | Y | Y-8 | |
| Mohamed Elneny | 35 | Mid | Y | N | |
| Deyan Iliev | 50 | GK | Y | Y | |
| Matt Macey | 54 | GK | Y-9 | ||
| Jon Toral | 57 | CM | Y-10 | ||
| Cohen Bramall | 85 | LB | Y-11 |
That resultant 25 leaves us with 11 home grown players (the minimum number for a full squad of 25 is 8, so the club ought to be congratulated). I have numbered them to make the numbers easier to check.
I would doubt many other clubs will get this high a number. Most will be under 8, and so reduce their 25 man squad down to 21 or 22 to cope.
The squad can be re-worked in January, and a different squad can be named for the Europa League and the domestic cups, so if for example Santi does come back before January we can play him as an overage player in under 23 games, and in the cup competitions.
Andrew has removed Gabriel – I’ve left him in for the moment, but I’m sure Andrew’s insight is better than mine on this one.
And if we do sign anyone else we do have up to August 31 to make changes to the squad.
Here’s my (Tony’s) guess for the 25 as things stand.
| Player | Squad No | Position | Currently part of first team squad | Homegrown | Removed |
| Per Mertesacker | 4 | CB | Y | N | |
| Gabriel | 5 | CB | Y | N | |
| Laurent Koscielny | 6 | CB | Y | N | |
| Alexis Sanchez | 7 | Forward | Y | N | |
| Aaron Ramsey | 8 | Mid | Y | Y-1 | |
| Andre Lacazette | 9 | Striker | Y | N | |
| Mesut Özil | 11 | Mid | Y | N | |
| Olivier Giroud | 12 | Forward | Y | N | |
| David Ospina | 13 | GK | Y | N | |
| Theo Walcott | 14 | Forward | Y | Y-2 | |
| Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain | 15 | Mid | Y | Y-3 | |
| Rob Holding | 16 | CB | Y | Y-4 | |
| Nacho Monreal | 18 | LB | Y | N | |
| Shkodran Mustafi | 20 | CB | Y | N | |
| Calum Chambers | 21 | CB | Y | Y-5 | |
| Danny Welbeck | 23 | Forward | Y | Y-6 | |
| Hector Bellerin | 24 | RB | Y | Y-7 | |
| Granit Xhaka | 29 | CM | Y | N | |
| Saad Kolasinac | 31 | LB | Y | N | |
| Petr Cech | 33 | GK | Y | N | |
| Francis Coquelin | 34 | DM | Y | Y-8 | |
| Mohamed Elneny | 35 | Mid | Y | N | |
| Matt Macey | 54 | GK | Y-9 | ||
| Jon Toral | 57 | CM | Y-10 | ||
| Cohen Bramall | 85 | LB | Y-11 |
That table of course excludes players who are under 21 who will play for the first team. Iwobi, Nelson, Maitland-Niles… I am also assuming only the third choice keeper will be over 21. Normally the fourth choice keeper is an under 21.
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Wasn’t Toral linked with a loan to Forest?
I doubt if Jon Toral will make the 25. Add Gabriel, it makes room for two. Here’s hoping we make on more signing!
Sorry: ONE more signing
Look, I am a massive fan of Wenger, as anyone who reads untold will know. I agree with every aspect of how our club is run.
No Oligarch bank rolling us. No Nation state sponsoring us.
But looking from the outside, as a laymen, we do seem to of got ourselves in a bit of a ‘pickle’ with our squad.
-Unresolved contracts.
-Too many players on the books.
It certainly looks like it all could be a bit ‘last minute dot com.’
Not moaning, because I have no doubt everyone from Wenger upwards has tried to get everything resolved, but from where I sit, for one reason or another, it doesn’t all seemed to of gone to plan.
Still, a couple of weeks to go and a lot could, indeed needs to happen.
Hate to be a spoiler. But Bramall will still be classed as an under 21. It’s about the year of birth. Just like Iwobi, he is a 1996 born, so doesn’t have to be included in the 25.
Toral played in the last U23 pre season game I saw against Borehamwood and is still with us for now. I was impressed with him that evening and had forgotten how ‘silky’ he was when on the ball. I suspect that he will go out on loan somewhere but if he stayed I would have no issues with him being part of the squad and playing in the League Cup or Europa League (obviously depending on the opposition)
If the reports are correct Gabriel is in Spain about to (or having) a medical with Valencia – that’s why I left him out.
@ Atid,
My understanding was that it is the age of the player at 01 January in which the season starts that decides whether the player is either over or under 21 (or 18 as appropriate).
I have Cohen Bramble down as born on 2 April 1995 thus over 21, Alex Iwobi I have born on 3 May 1996 thus under 21.
Have I got Cohen’s DOB wrong?
@ Atid
I have just checked and it is indeed my data that is wrong – I guess I miss typed his DOB into my master spreadsheet – now corrected!
Sorry guys Cohen Bramall is U21 and should be eliminated from the main table of the article.
We are a bit top heavy in certain positions so there is a bit of astute trimming to do. However, when I look at your list of CB’s my heart sinks, we badly need another top quality proven CB in this window. January might be too late for this season. I think there is enough quality in both the midfield and forward areas with Lacazette and Kolasinac(great signing) coming in and, hopefully, Sanchez, The Ox and Ozil staying. Pay Southampton what they want for Van Dijk and forget about Lamar and Seri. I know it won’t happen, Chelsea will probably get him while AW and SK twiddle their thumbs and hope for the best! Our defence has let us down year after year and yet we have a ‘blind spot’ when it comes to beefing it up. All the early success AW had with AFC was, in large part, due to the legendary defence he inherited, has he forgotten this? Maybe Jens Lehman will remind him because Bouldy won’t.
Andrew Elder
“Our defence has let us down year after year”
And your evidence to back up this statement is?
Not saying you are right or wrong. Your evidence may, may not, persuade me.
Present it and we’ll see.
Agree with Andrew – Players only need to be registered if they were already over 21 before the start of the calendar year that each season starts in. Holding, Iwobi & Akpom therefore don’t need to be registered. Atid – Bramall was 21 in April 2016 so would need to be registered although if we’re talking about losing a place in the 25 man squad Bramall would be an obvious choice for me to play in the U23s, League & Europa Cups only. Cazorla & Campbell are both long-term injuries so that’s 2 more off the list. I don’t see us registering both Iliev & Macey, one of them will miss out. Gabriel is being transferred as we speak. We’ll find a solution for Perez before the end of the transfer window. Etc. The work to get us down to a squad of 25 isn’t as difficult as it might at first seem
Has Alex Iwobi 17 lost his home grown status for representing Nigeria?
Why hiding him in the U21 category and including holding??
Bramall was born in 1995. He is over 21 by any definition
@chidi – Iwobi has not lost his homegrown status. He will always count as homegrown because he has spent 3 years with an English team before the age of 21. It doesn’t matter what senior National team he has subsequently gone on to play for.
Where is Alexandra Iwobi in all those listof homegrown, firt team player and all that?
Andrew Elder
‘I know it won’t happen, Chelsea will probably get him while AW and SK twiddle their thumbs and hope for the best! Our defence has let us down year after year and yet we have a ‘blind spot’ when it comes to beefing it up.’
Kolasinac is part of the defence so it has been beefed up. AW got him in early, no thumb twiddling there was there.
My own guessed Arsenal’s final 25 man senior team summer squad list is as follows:
GKs:
Cech, Ospina & Macey. Total = 3.
Defnds:
Mertesacker, Koscielny, Monreal, Chambers, Holding, Mustafi & Kolasinac. Total = 7.
Wingbacks:
Bellerin, Chamberlain & Bramal. Total = 3.
DMs:
Coquelin & Elneny. = 2.
Midfielders:
Walcott, Ramsey, Wilshere, Xhaka & Lemar. = 5.
Playmakers:
Ozil & Sanchez. = 2.
Strikers:
Lacazette, Giroud & Welbeck. = 3.
Grand total = 25 in numbers.
I don’t think the signing of a new DM by Le prof this summer will work anymore as I’ve been agitating for one. This is because for wingback quality, I want to see Bramal makes this 25 man list despite that Kolasinac and Monreal can also play as wingbacks too. I think am done.
He is under 21 and so not in the list of 25
MickHazel
Re: Andrew Elder
Drives you nuts doesn’t it.
These people post random accusations full of standard media soundbites.
Thing is all you have to do is ask: ‘And your evidence for this statement is?’ and off they trot.
Either that or you get:
a) ‘I don’t believe in statistics. You can make them say whatever you want them to’.
Well that’s as maybe, but evidently they cant actually make them say what they want them to say, hence why they don’t believe in them !
b) ‘I know what I see with my own eyes’
Which, given every person on the planet ‘Knows what they see with there own eyes’ must be the weakest argument you can ever make.
Still, it’s early days, perhaps he is at this very moment putting together a dossiers of evidence to support every word he says. I wont hold my breath.
What do you guys think of the rumour stared about Draxler ?
Apart from the fact that it is a rumor, I sure would not mind having him ar Arsenal.
Would he be able to replace Sanchez, if not in terms of type of play, but still, occupying a slot and delivering ?
What do you think ?
By the way, had some fun watching a skysport show this morning where a guy called Merson seriuously stated that Liverpool are a team that expects winning a trophy each year or something like that, kind of Liverpool are in BIG CLUB territory – the discussion was also about RM and Barça….. Seriously ?!?!
Ah yes I forgot, the trophies Arsenal won are non trophies, so Pool! are not expecting their players to win them anyway so they may be discarded. Which I guess helps ease the stress on players and as a side effect may give some of them ideas to move to clubs wanting to win trophies.
Or maybe I was watching a re-run of some 90’s TV football show where the Neymars, Messis and Sanchez’ talked about were the fathers of the players so popular today and some recent trophies were oin display at their stadium.
Anyways, helped me start the day with a smile.
Chris
My thoughts on Alexis are, yes he is good, very good, but is he irreplaceable?
I don’t think so. Difficult to replace, granted, but not impossible.
Irrespective of whether or not we would miss him that much, my concern is that letting him go without a replacement, that is at least ‘perceived’ by the media to be a similar or like for like replacement, will lay us bare to the usual tirade of vitriol we have come to expect on the departure of one of big names.
In other words it’s actually more the effect it will have off the pitch as opposed to on it.
So the options are simple, get someone in of Draxlers quality and let Alexis go, but NOT to a PL Club. If not, keep him. It’s as simple as that.
Nitram,
right on, we agree.
Draxler is too injury prone for my taste. He is a top talent but what’s use of it if he’ll spend three or four months per season on the sidelines?
We’ll see what will happen with Nabil Fekir. He was my favourite Lyon talent but got a serious injury as well. He’s had a great start as the Lyon captain this season but it’s only August.
@ Andrew Elder – Which one of Arsenals invincible back 5 (including the goalkeeper) did Wenger inherit? Oh yeah, that’s right, it was none of them!
I suggest you should actually look at our defensive stats, before making comments about how Wenger has a blind-spot and just “twiddles his thumbs” when it comes to defending, because otherwise, you just make yourself look like a bit of an idiot.
@Jammy J
You’re right.
Speaking of Graham’s Back Five, I have always stated that Arsenal fans who diminish Graham’s results to make Arsene look bigger are not doing a favour to anyone, especially not to Arsene.
However, here are a few facts.
1) it’s true that Arsenal had the best defensive record ever in EPL era with The Back Five…but under Arsene’s guidance and with two Arsene’s signings – Paddy Vieira and Manu Petit – protecting them in the midfield. In case someone has missed it, I’m talking about 1998-99 from which Arsene has both his best defensive record (17 goals conceded over 38 games) and the worst attacking record (less than 60 goals scored).
2) Arsenal won the league without a defeat with The Back Five Arsene had assembled over the years: Lehmann, Lauren, Toure, Campbell, Cole. Again, this back-line was protected by Vieira and Gilberto Silva, another Arsene’s shrewd piece of business.
3) Arsenal set the defensive record in Champions League 2005-06 with essentially a make-shift defence consisted – again – of Arsene’s players and that had missed two best individuals (Campbell, Cole) for the biggest part of the streak. The defence that kept Real Madrid of Zidane, Raul, Ronaldo et al without a goal over 180 minutes: Lehmann, Eboue, Senderos, Toure, Flamini. Sorry, but I have to say: LOOOOOL!
Arsene knows how to defend. The problem is, he wants to give the fans something watchable and not a parked bus game during which you hate the day your Dad took you to your first football game ever. We have seen how it works when Arsene has to play an ugly football in 2012-13 during our run-in. Our must-win away games v Fulham, QPR and West Brom were barely watchable. We won each one of them but it was ugly to watch but he had to do it because our Champions League qualification and Champions League revenue was in doubt.
Gabriel has officially joined Valencia permanently for an undisclosed fee…. Arsenal.com
Which means he’s out of the 25…
@Samuel…. good call on your 25
@Tony….adjustment needed
@Samuel
Kolasinac will play more as a wingback I believe…. No contest with Monreal for the LCB.
Lemar is not an Arsenal player…whu is he on your list? I doubt if that deal will happen – Alexis is staying.
@Tony
I agree with Debuchy, Gibbs and Jenkins on being gone.
I love to see Toral in the first team too.
I’m thinking Perez will stay, if he wants to. Arsenal is a good deal for him (I doubt if he’ll make the LaRoja for 2018) He should be quite prolific in the cups…especially Europa.
I’m getting really optimistic about watching this team mature as the season grows. Come rain or shine…..
I would like to thank Gabriel Armando de Abreu for the time he spent at Arsenal, and I wish him well at Valencia.
—-
I guess the spuds have been impressed with Alexis Sanchez so much, they went out and bought (another) Sanchez, Davinson. He is from Columbia.
Wilshere is not on either list. Do you expect someone to put up the money Arsenal want for him before the window closes and even if someone does, will Jack be willing to take a hit to his 90k per week?
NM I suspect Jack will go out on loan in order to prove his fitness.