Arsenal v Man City; the teams, who gets the most cards, who is vital in the dressing room

 By Bulldog Drummond

So let’s have the big big news from the Daily Star to begin with…

David Ospina reveals big Arsenal dressing room change following Olivier Giroud’s departure
This piece tells us that Oooooospina is now “the designated dressing room disc jockey.”  Also, we are told he is the “tune selector”.   But perhaps not as much as the headline suggests through the use of the word “big”.

“Sometimes I select the music, sometimes it’s Mustafi,” he added.  I am so glad we have to that out of the way.

Meanwhile the “doom, doom we are all doomed” websites who worship Corporal Jones as their spiritual leader, inevitably look to Football London for their lead and today is no different for we find therein the clear statement that “Aaron Ramsey is set to be fit to face Manchester City in Sunday.”

There is a slight difference in nuance and emphasis however in the Metro that tells us “the Welsh international had no reaction to Saturday’s fitness test and has won the battle to be fit in time for the showdown.”

Ah.  Or perhaps “hmmmm” (I am never quite sure what the reaction to 50 word gibberish should be)

But now here is something you did not know.  By the end of today Arsenal “will have played against former or current Manchester City reserve keepers in every round of the competition: Doncaster’s Ian Lawlor, Norwich’s Angus Gunn, West Ham’s Joe Hart, Chelsea’s Willy Caballero and – finally in City colours – Ederson’s back-up man, Claudio Bravo.”  How about that!   That’s in the Guardian.

Bad news for the “Corporal Jones leads” movement however is that Arsenal sold all its tickets for the match.  There was talk of those of us who go to the games not going to this one, but it turned out to be gibberish.  Never known that before.

And before I move on there is a piece in the Mail on how Arsenal can win which basically says, “Shut down De Bruyne”.

Actually as I read further in that piece I made a mistake and misread the next sentence, “The only way Arsenal will have any hope of beating City is by shutting down the Belgian” which I read as “shut down Belgium.”   I already had Walter on the phone telling him to get stocked up with supplies before it was pointed out to me that there was a definite article lurking in there.

Oh yes and in case you missed it, Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang is having trouble at Arsenal because he has “not found it too easy to gel with his new team.”    Don’t take it personally Pierre-Emerick.  Everyone gets attacked and its just what they are throwing at you today.  Tomorrow it will be different.

Anyway the long and the short of it all is that in order to win Arsenal have to go on the counter attack, go direct and “hit Aubameyang” which I take to mean, pass the ball to Aubameyang, and interestingly (perhaps because he has only played a little bit for us), he is being talked up for his speed and ability to dribble with the ball and find the spaces other players can’t.

So after all that, what sort of team have we got?    Here’s one line up


Bellerin, Mustafi, Koscielny, Monreal;

Ramsey, Elneny, Xhaka 

Ozil, Aubameyang, Iwobi 

Another way of looking at all this is however to assume that Wilshere (who seemed to be having real problems on Thursday at Arsenal) is fit and able to play the whole game…


Bellerin, Mustafi, Koscielny, Monreal;

Wilshere Elneny Xhaka

Ozil, Aubameyang, Ramsey

What is interesting is that not too many people seem to be talking much about the rise of Elneny, and indeed some are still citing him as typical of Arsenal’s problems – bringing in second rate players when it is a matter of defence.

But I think Elneny, who will play in the World Cup finals this summer is far from that.  Rather he is endlessly energetic and excellent at playing in defensive midfield – as well as being able to play in the back line of defence also.  But that’s just how I see it.

Beached we might have seven from this list of nine…

Cech, Chambers, Holding, Maitland-Niles, Kolasinac, Mertesacker, Iwobi or Wilshire (whoever does not start), Welbeck

So, we now get ready for the trek to London, and then a pleasant lunch chez a member of the untolder clan (a rarity before a game) and then, well, who knows.  But let me leave you with this thought

Arsenal this season: Yellow cards – 51; Red cards 0 in all competitions

Manchester Money this season: Yellow cards – 74; Red card 3 in all competitions.

And that’s why they have demanded a private meeting with PGMO; to get this sorted out.  Everyone knows they don’t commit fouls.

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129 Replies to “Arsenal v Man City; the teams, who gets the most cards, who is vital in the dressing room”

  1. Bulldog,

    thanks for the cards stat.

    Just shows how City are playing fair and decent on the field. After all they have the best coach of the galaxy, who is the only one knows anything about football, about the beautiful game….. yeah sure….And Arsenal are just a bunch of amateurs running after a ball and hurting themselves in the process

  2. Seems like Pep has total respect for Arsene.
    From Sky Sports

    Pep Guardiola has revealed how he wanted to work with Arsene Wenger during his playing days – and how close he came to joining Arsenal, only to be told there was no space in the squad.

    That move did not materialise, but, speaking ahead of the Carabao Cup final between Manchester City and Arsenal on Sunday, City boss Guardiola told Sky Sports: “I would have liked to have played for him.

    “I called him to make an interview and he invited me to his home, he was so kind. I said my dream is to play in the Premier League and I would like to play with you and I feel I can help you. Maybe it was a little bit arrogant but he had his squad and he said there was no space.

    “I understand completely but I would have liked to have played with him. It was not possible, so no problem at all.”

  3. If this link doesn’t show the match, in search type Arsenal as I have just done and found the game listed.

  4. Brilliant Colario. Thanks for the link. I was searching through the channels in Goa & found the Man U v Chelsea match has taken priority here in India. Nothing new there!!

  5. Arsenal 13 – good luck mate. I hope we win another Wembley match & keep up our cup record.


  6. To those in India , is Videocon showing the game ? Have not subscribe to Sony though .

  7. Harry ‘chubby’ Kane scores in the 88th minute, goes into the crowd to celebrate with the spuds… Surprise surprise no booking.
    They play under different rules.

  8. Exactly knobby. THe dive gets them a free kick & even the goal follows on from fouling in the box. But the Laws that PGMOL invent are select like them.

  9. It looks like we are 20% of the way to that scoreline now.


    Sure glad the olymbics is finally over.

  10. And here’s our team in text: Ospina, Bellerin, Chambers, Mustafi, Koscielny, Monreal, Xhaka, Wilshere, Ramsey, Ozil, Aubameyang Subs: Cech, Mertesacker, Kolasinac, Elneny, Maitland-Niles, Iwobi, Welbeck

    Arsenal twitter

  11. I expect Ozil, Aubam., Wilshire and Ramsey to be continually targetted with painful tackles, as Man$ity are to be protected, no doubt both when they are receiving and giving treatment to their opponents.

    At least the main diver is not playing.

    Good luck boys.

  12. Well, as IMHO, we’ve got one f…. interesting line-up today. Jack and Aaron together on the field…I love it.


  13. Because we haven’t been playing as well as we hoped lately, I will predict that we will have 17 aaa stop by during the game to spread messages of love and joy.


  14. The assistant in Arsenals half is 4 or 5 yards behind play. He will never get an offside right from where he is…..

  15. Monreal gets called a diver at 14 minutes, and 12 minutes later has to be subbed off. Not a peep from the commentators on that.


  16. Aguero doesn’t look at all at the ball, is focused on Mustafi, and puts his elbow on Mustafi body…

    How on earth can anyone pretend that is not a foul (and likely also a yellow card offense for the elbox)?

  17. Menace, I thought that’s what VAR was for.
    Commentators mote worried about if it was a foul, yet he was offside when he committed it.

  18. Can’t give Fern… a second yellow?

    > Next time there’ll be no next time.

    Sorry commentator. For Man$, there will be nothing but next time.


  19. Pat see your last post, stop putting up links it’s not clever!

    He played 3-4-2-1 why the fuck!

    Mustarfi who has been making glaring errors everywhere, Chambers who scored an own goal 3 days ago, conceded two penalties and was defensively all over the place.

    No DM when Mo has epitomised what that should be recently, And pep is mimicking our system, with insurances of two more defensive players in a 3 man system to give De a Bruyne time.

    He switched to Kompany relying on his physicality to compliment Otamendi going with experience.

    Assist Bravo, mistake Mustarfi. I said everything not to do, even Monreal not wide. He hasn’t used a defensive sub and we have no bench.

    Everything that could go wrong has and everything that could be done wrong has happened.

    Wenger, I hope you know some mega shit I don’t, let’s hope our tactics match, because that means we both win by losing both styles or we both dead and buried.

    Insha Allah!

  20. As I predicted, Jack has been hit 5 times, the last 2 of which the ref decided to ignore.

    Ozil has been hit 4 times.

    Poor goal to give away, but could he have been offside when the ball was kicked by the goalie?

    The commentators are so biased in favour of man$ity it is getting obnoxious.

  21. DK that why you do the shit & Wenger is the boss. Stay quiet, When you manage a football team then you can talk.

  22. Just seen the no offside from a goal kick stated by Bellamy.
    I am sorry but I never knew that. Throws ons I knew about. I am sure I have seen them given.
    I will pay more attention to this in future games.

  23. Neville is a disgrace. He is supposed to be a co-commentator but instead spends the entire 45 minutes slagging off our players.
    I also thought Aguerro was offside when the ball was kicked but with no replay it is impossible to confirm or not.

  24. Clarification about offside from throwing, corners and goal kicks.

    There is no offside offence if a player receives the ball directly from a goal kick, a corner kick, or a throw-in. It is also not an offence if the ball was last deliberately played by an opponent (except for a deliberate save). In this context, according to the IFAB, “A ‘save’ is when a player stops, or attempts to stop, a ball which is going into or very close to the goal with any part of the body except the hands/arms (unless the goalkeeper within the penalty area).

  25. Neville is starting to get right up my nose now!
    C’mon the Arsenal, spirit of 71…79…89 and all that.

  26. Between poor refereeing, Mikie being cup-tied and Laka being injured this was always going to be difficult against the in-form side of the league. Just disappointed in our movement on the pitch. We’re such a good passing side and yet today we look nervous.

  27. Menace. LoL I see you!

    VAR did not come into play, obviously becaiae the referee have autonomy over its implementation, they are also totally culperavoe for every officiating decision, but are not liable for injury, disrepute or failure to implement the rules. An illegal protocol!

    But you are on about VAR.

    Mustarfi, again!

    Wenger, you have to be employing the same tactic. I do not think you are insane!

    Good luck, game over!

    I was spot on!

    I do the shit, I build cases so big they are UN and NSA FBI Interpol level and we deal with Noj governmental departments. We create social policy and have to be affected by the sameness methodology which has Pep wearing yellow ribbons.

    Pep used our own tactic against us. One link and a formation kernel is down, or did it!

    The team that wins the Cup usually loses the league fixture when the year are in close proximity.

    Lets hope not to buck the trend then.

    I’m not even annoyed. But I do enjoy knowing who’s watching me watching them, says capttue IP address.

    Indeed she wore a yellow ribbon!

    “You must play dumb to catch wise” – nice context for a song!

  28. MickHazel Knobby

    Yes it’s just gone 3 nil.

    I don’t give a f***

    But I’ve just been saying the same, Neville is an absolute disgrace.

    Is it because he still knows what a disgrace his and his buddies were on that fateful day back at OT ?

    His none stop insults are pathetic.

    I am big enough to admit when a team is better than us, and City are. In fact as they’ve been telling me for the last 2 hours City are possibly the best team in Europe.

    But City have done this, and worse, to others, but do they get this endless tirade of abuse ?

    Neville. You are a c***

  29. This team has no spine, no defensive quality, no creativity and, worst of all, serious lack of intelligence. I don’t want to see Mustafi and Xhaka ever again in the Arsenal shirt. 70 millions paid for those two is the biggest mistake Arsene has ever made.

    Europa League it is. If we fail to win it, Arsene should leave.

  30. Have to agree, Neville is a disgrace! Seems whenever we’re in trouble and he’s a pundit we get nothing but abuse for 90 minutes.

  31. Arsenal have a net spend of just above break even.
    Shitty have spent more than we did on the building of the Emirates.
    Yet conveniently all this is forgot in Nevilles hatred for Arsenal

  32. He’s insulting everything about us, not just about today but going back years.

    Yet it is us that has won 3 FA Cups, finished 2nd 3rd and 4th within that time.

    So if we are that bad what about Liverpool. Spurs.

    And why is it that Wilsheres WON more free kicks than anybody else.

    Surely he means he’s been FOULED more than anyone else today. Still he does get himself injured lets not forget that.

  33. The have a go stuff that cunt Neville gets away with was also evident from Savage in the euro tie. Something official needs to be done. Simply bang out of order.

  34. I don’t like Neville anymore than anybody else but what do you expect him to say during an Arsenal performance like that, personally I suspect part of his anger towards Arsenal is not because he hates us but because he probably hates City even more.

  35. Let me just say, none of my moaning suggests that Man City didn’t deserve to win this match, but Nevilles non stop abuse is nothing short of disgraceful.

    The referee has yet again be poor and biased against us allowing City to constantly fouls us. This is nothing new.

    We haven’t been brilliant but we were nothing like as bad as what that c*** Neville is trying to make out.

    As I say, what an absolute **** he is.

  36. 5th Gen Gooner, Re your 6 pm post.

    Spot on, and this nervousness is what always cost us. Specially definsively.

  37. We’re about 4 players short of being able to compete. Our midfield is gutless and our defense has been neglected since Sol Campbell left. Steve Bould must be muted or something because defensively we’re a joke and have been for years. Mustafi is average at best and Holding is too inexperienced to be able to rely upon. I will be happy if we stop buying offensive players and actually invested in the areas that have been our downfall for the last decade – DM’s and CB’s!

  38. We stood about toe to toe to Citeh created a chance for Auba .
    Nothing like as bad as Neville was making out.
    If you cannot hear the bias commentry on sky, try BT with Hargreaves

  39. I switched off the sound 20 minutes before the end as I could not take Neville’s biased comments anymore.

    I think the referee allowed too many fouls against Wilshire and Ozil, which continued unabated throughout the first half.

    They were the better team by far and deserved to win.

    I am sad that we did not make a better show of it.

    Mustafi’s mistake let us down and it was uphill all the way after then.

    Ironically, we had more shots on target in the first half, I cannot recall that they had that many in the 2nd half, apart from the goals they scored. I also do not recall that we had even one in the 2ns half.

    Our passing fell apart in the 2nd half, so we were under the cosh the whole time and when we attacked, it did not get very far.

    Better luck next year.

  40. I have watched this club lose plenty of games. If I were to have pulled out my hair every time they have lost by more than one goal to another team, I would be bald many times over. None of my Arsenal friends are happy about the score, but it doesn’t mean we have to lose our minds over it.

    Based on this season’s performance, did we really think we were going to win? We wanted to, we have the talent to have done it, but ManCity have been the in form team all year. This is not a surprise nor is it the end of the world. We know where we are and where we want to be. The team will get on with it and we should get on with enjoying our Sunday with our families.

  41. So people are blaming Neville for today’s performance, week in week out Arsenal criticism, yet today you couldn’t handle it.

  42. Since you all love stats soo much, can some1 give the,figures, on how many times we pass the ball back?

  43. Azinoz

    Even if we didn’t do anything to get over excited about, we also wasn’t bad enough to warrant the completely disproportionate amount of abuse we got.

    And that’s the point.

    By the abuse Neville was handing out you’d of thought we hadn’t won a trophy for 10 years.

    No, that’s Liverpool and Spurs.

    You certainly wouldn’t believe we’d also managed to qualify for the CL every year since Wenger arrived bar one.

    You certainly wouldn’t have thought we’d finished 2nd 3rd and 4th in the last 5 years.

    That’s the point.

    Yes we were not brilliant today but against a great side we were not embarrassed, despite the attempts by Neville and co to say we were..

    Honestly, if you think how Neville went about destroying our players throughout the entire match was ok, then you are as bad as he is.

  44. Neville is dickless. That’s why he can manage the women. They are reasonably safe but wont win a thing.

  45. Jet

    “So people are blaming Neville for today’s performance,”

    Were has anybody said that?

    Come on show me.

  46. Nobby, I also believe we’ve are hard done by in the media but the fact is (at least in my opinion) right now our performances are not at the standard a club of our standing and resourses deserve and before anyone accuses me, I do not believe in Arsenal having a divine right to win things but the way we are currently playing does not deserve a positive comment from anyone including Neville.

  47. Arsenal played shit because of Neville..
    Ha ha ha…
    Just a bit of respect.. even a tiny bit is all we asked.

  48. Arguero was behind Mustafi & fouled him with an elbow in the back – a nudge apparently. That takes the biscuit. The serial fouling on Jack & Ozil initially was shameful. That is something we have got to get used to or walk away from the corrupt game.

  49. gouresh

    “Since you all love stats soo much, can some1 give the,figures, on how many times we pass the ball back?”

    And that proves what exactly ?

  50. Azinoz

    “but the way we are currently playing does not deserve a positive comment from anyone including Neville.”

    But neither does it deserve 90 minutes of endless criticism, that’s the point.

    It’s this total lack of perspective that gets me.

    We just lost 3 nil to possibly the best team in Europe. Why does that warrant a character assassination of our entire team ?

    I don’t expect Neville or anyone else for that matter to be telling us how brilliant we were today, but neither do expect to have to pay to listen to that kind of biased, disproportionate, abuse of my team. Not from Neville, not from anyone.

    That’s the point

  51. Absolutely Nitram. Neville clearly has issues with us. Formal complaint. Mass cancellations of Sky shit needs to happen

  52. He should have watched that crap Man U today…
    Chelsea scored a perfectly good equalizer ruled out for offside,
    Oh and watch the Spurs keeper Loris handle the ball outside the area with no free kick or sending off today if you get the chance.

  53. Nitram

    How many shots did we have, and creativity!

    Lol, a push, really?

    Neville bashing Arsenal, we were his no. 1 enemy.

    You really blaming the above.

  54. We had to replace Alexis, PEA17 you don’t turn Dow.

    Arsene identifies, the team go for them. The bew teak hasnhis name on it, but any signing must Ben sanctioned by who finally, not the manager, its bot hos money.

    Second majority shareholder, correctly suggests he invests around £300m to replace our reserves making the reserve disposable.

    He isn’t frozen out of the board.

    Sometimes losing is how you win.

  55. Poor in defence, Ozil didnt show up, Xhaka lazy.
    Same old same old, when oh when will somebody at Arsenal get a grip.

  56. Watched the game as I watch every game broadcast. I refer everyone who wants to complain about the Ref or talk about money or MU’s result to 5th Gen Gooner’s post at 6:25. And I think he’s being kind with only needing 4. The one’s who have Premier League and ability don’t show up often enough. Why?

  57. Knobby

    Apparently Kane did not receive a card for going into the crowd after scoring either.

    Not saying it would of changed the result but what it does show is tendency to apply one set of rules to one team and one to another.

    Cant remember the match but there was one were both Kane and Alli should of been sent off for 2 disgraceful fouls.

    I believe in the next 3 matches that Kane should of been suspended for he scored about 6 goals.

    Again, not really Kanes fault, or Spurs for that matter, but it is an absolute joke what they get away with at times.

    These little ‘blind spots’ the referees seem to have for Spurs are earning them points week after week.

    And again, before I get jumped all over, this isn’t to say I don’t accept that Spurs, and Liverpool for that matter, are playing a lot better than us.

    Back in November I predicted a PL 1, 2, 3 of City, Spurs/Liverpool. I’m not blind or stupid.

    But I know biased, disrespectful, nasty, inaccurate commentary when I hear it.

  58. jet

    So because he hates Arsenal he’s allowed to insult our players for 90 minutes is he ?

    “How many shots did we have”

    In the first half 2 on target to there 1 which incidental was on the back of a foul.

    Any more questions ?

  59. First half we were good aa they were, except for their goal.

    Second half, we lost it un the second half.

  60. I don’t really expect or care that Neville hates Arsenal.
    I can hear him twisting the knife in, it surprises me that other supporters condone his comments as being deserved.
    I thought we er um stuck together….lol

  61. I love arsenal. when we were great, we were criticised!
    of all arsenal years since the Emirates, this year is one in which everything refuse to click! arsenal move to change way but the damage already done. since last season, scezesny, Gabrel, cpquelin, flamini, debuchy, Sanchez, ox, walcot and giroud are all gone!
    we have lacazete, auba and miki!
    we supposed to be improved but the damage had been done!
    a lot of poor officiating costing us daily snuffed out the fight and on the days when things don’t go our way, we got worse!
    this is a season to be forgotten so soon!
    we are nudged out of top 4 bar late hour Resurrection!
    we are no more in FA, we just lost carabao and AC Millan awaits in Europe where only welbeck is the available striker!
    the man they all wants down is Arsene! even if he leaves today, his achievement in English football will live past his detractors!
    AAA and WOB should continue celebrating with their friends in crime as the seed planted by them when they continuously criticising the team in victory has germinated and in our loss they found joy.
    city won carabao but I had earlier taken community shield away from them as also stepped them to FA cup final victory just last season.
    their victory may only be sweetened if their press friend turns carabao cup to a trophy just because city won it while FA loses its status because arsenal have been winning it.
    WIN LOSE OR DRAW. I rep the guns.

  62. In summary I’m not going to sit here and say we were great today.

    But equally I’m not going to sit here an listen to Gary Neville give a critique on our performance that goes way beyond the bounds of what is acceptable.

    Yes, he may ‘hate’ Arsenal. He may ‘hate’ City. But it is his job to give an objective, fair and balanced assessment of what he sees on the pitch.

    Despite us not playing great he quite clearly did not do that, instead using the occasion to totally abuse our players and our manager beyond anything that could be deemed acceptable on what we saw today.

    That to me suggests a premeditated agenda.

    He used the occasion to insult us not just for today but for the past 5 plus years, years in which we won 3 FA Cups and finished in decent positions in the PL.

    This clearly displays a desire to criticise us no matter what.

    To put it in context, over the last 5 years we are the 4th most successful Club in the Premiership, only behind 3 Clubs with infinitely more spending power than us, and above the highly praised Liverpool and Spurs, yet from Nevilles ranting you wouldn’t believe we’d won a thing.

  63. For once I haven’t read all the comments largely because I know full well the nonsupporters will be out moaning again.

    I just wanted to ask the question why, if Man City committed four of the five worst fouls in the game, we picked up a card every other foul and they managed only a third of the cards? It was quite clear early on that Pep’s moaning to immoral Mike Riley meant that Pawson was going to let them get away with most fouls whilst booking us for virtually any physical contact. The perfect PIGMOB approach. Make a team realise that they risk a booking every time they tackle but the opposition will be able to hit them hard with virtual impunity.

    And the money train rolls on on…………………

  64. So Man City won the Carabao Cup! Big deal! With nearly a half billion pounds in player investment and with help from the PigMob they should be a runaway train by now. COYG pick yourselves up and lets go for it. Can’t afford to dwell on this disappointment at all, there are other targets that should keep us excited.

  65. What right does Neville have to repeat more than once that Ramsey and Xhaka were a disgrace because they were walking and not running?

    What sort of nonsense is that?

    AS I said before I simply could not take it any more and switched off the sound with 20 minutes to go.

    Man$ity are a terrific team and yet it seems to me that part of their success is built around the sort of rotational fouling that we saw, especially in the first half, which meant that virtually every time Jack started running with the ball, he was fouled.

    It seems that PGMOL have taken notice of Guardiola when he was complaining that his players were not being protected by the refs, and yet who was protecting Jack and Ozil against Guardiola’s players?

    Does not hypocrisy live in Manchester?

  66. So, where to from here now? AFC appear to have reached a supposed bottom, so where do you go now to turn this around? And more importantly, who is going to lead such a charge?

  67. jjgsol
    You persevered longer than me before you turned the sound off, I switched it off at half time.

  68. couldn’t see the match. Hoped this would bring us luck. Apparently it didn’t…
    Oh well, we’ve been to a final. Played the best team in the PL and lost.
    Better next time.

  69. The site may have views that I respect….
    But is it just a coincidence that Chelsea and Citeh are winning titles CL and cups since the new owners have poured finances into the clubs?

  70. Nitram

    Wasn’t it our way of watching the game without the commentary, but, it hurts, the truth hurts.

    Get real!!!!

  71. Gary Neville, Gary Neville, Garrry

    Honestly, are your realy going on this!
    You’re more deluded than anything on earth!
    Get a grip.

    Hopefully you wake up.

  72. I have more time for Neville Longbottom than this particuar Neville but in fairness, it is not his job to be balanced…it is to make people watch. He is certainly not known for his outstanding career as a manager so analysis can’t be it…so unfounded opinions will have to suffice. The networks don’t give a damn if the coverage is balanced or not. They just want money. And, all things being equal, more people will hate a team than like it, so it pays to thrash a team; more people will watch if they beat up on Arsenal than if they go on about how good Man City is or whether they point out that the referee on the day might be shite.

  73. @nitram

    You ever been to the emirates? Or Wembly?
    Everyone drive a car and park up, and pay for it, or tickets, or merchandise, or season tickets?
    Good money, yes!
    so way settle on mediocre football, and make every excuse under the sun?

  74. Sorry last comment not to GGG.

    MOTD no mention of Chelsea’s perfectly good equalizer in analysis just a quick mention during game…..but a big big decision.
    Man U love in….

  75. Nitram,

    Given the events of today, I can understand that you’re not in the best of moods and why you consequently had a proper old moan about Spurs earlier in the thread. But I have to put you right on a couple of points.

    Firstly, contrary to knobby’s claim, Lloris didn’t handle the ball outside the box. I was directly level with the incident, near the front of the away fans in the Arthur Waite stand. Lloris was indeed outside of his area at the moment of contact but the ball was clearly inside. As to Harry Kane’s celebration, he stopped at the touch line. It was only the momentum of team mates jumping on his back that caused him to stumble forward towards the fans. Nothing deliberate in it.

    As to Spurs always getting decisions in their favour, that is simply a delusion. You see and remember only what you want to see and remember. I wouldn’t claim, as you do for Arsenal (perhaps justifiably), that Spurs are especially hard done by refereeing decisions. But I would say that it’s not far off 50/50, Take today’s game, for example. Two clear penalties denied when the game was still at 0-0 (and yes, Alli should certainly have been booked for his subsequent atrocious dive over Hennessy – I would have no argument if he was handed a retrospective ban). Had either of those penalties been awarded, I suspect that Spurs would have gone on to win by a wider margin. Palace could no longer have continued to play with 10 or even 11 men behind the ball. But the point is that Spurs dug deep to win regardless. That’s why the bad calls against Spurs tend not to be dwelt on (either by the media or by Spurs) – because Pochettino’s team usually finds a way for bad calls not to matter.

    If you will forgive the presumption, I suspect that the opposite is true of this Arsenal team.

    Lastly, I can’t help feeling that you have recently been going to your fall back argument rather too easily and often – namely, that Spurs haven’t won any silverware lately. While true, I have to say that it is the north London equivalent of a scouser saying “,,,,five times……we’ve won it five times”.

    It isn’t the catch all argument winner that you seem to think it is.

  76. Since you bring up the nature of evidence maybe I could point out that “Take today’s game, for example” lies within this sphere of the nature of evidence. In the 160 game review which is still available on this site, we went through 160 games in order to avoid the distraction of details that happen in one game to look at a broader issue.

    One can of course debate the rights and wrongs of individual issues, but the insight into topics such as the equanimity of refereeing only occurs when one considers a lot of games.

    With that in mind one might ask why the mass media with infinitely more resources than Untold refuses to engage in this topic.

  77. Well, that was dispiriting. But what’s done is done. onto the next challenge. I just wish people, mostly our fans, would be kinder to the club they purport to support while still being no less critical when the team deserves it. Some smidgen of perspective and a modicum of temperance wouldnt be too bad.

    We ought to understand that earning all those millions doesnt make them any less human or less susceptible to all the pressures, negativity and the near fatalistic attatude held towards them by the media. Some things tend to just wear you down little by little. Personally, I’d feel paralyzed. I tend to have quite a low pain threshold.

    The fans can join everyone else in attacking the club and the manager (it always seems cool to do it) or we can trust that they can lift themselves up and overcome the twin evils of a biased media and a bent refereeing system. Either way,much of it is out of our hands. I really hope we could just do the latter and see where things go. Constantly attacking the club clearly hasnt yielded the outcome some would hope for.

    We lost to a great and expensively assembled team thats running away with the league. At least we were in the final. In all our biting criticims, lets always remember to have some measure of perspective. There’s nothing worse than being a hopeless fan.

  78. When the officials pick one team up for every tiny foul,while the opposition get away with everything there’s nothing much you can do.Add to that Gary Nevilles’s anti-Arsenal sensationalist commentary on the game and you can see why everyone’s giving us a kicking this morning..

  79. Yes, Tony, I’ve seen your 160 game Report. And as I’ve said previously, I admire this site’s dedication to the cause. There are a couple of caveats, though.

    Firstly, as admirable an effort as the report undoubtedly is, it is still inevitably a small sample size for each club. It gives a snapshot of a sixteen week period. I’m not sure that it is possible, from such a comparatively brief period, that a team is always favourably or unfavourably treated by referees. Thus, any further conclusions drawn appear to me to be little more than confirmation bias – which is entirely understandable in the circumstances.

    Secondly, any such report is only as good as the data that informs it. Yes, I know that you have used “neutral” judges to verify your interpretations of refereeing decisions. However, there is a valid comparison to be made here between this report and the kind of scientific studies one always reads in the press about this or that product – one day, you’re being told by “independent” scientists that product x is good for you; the next, by another group of “independent” scientists, that it is bad for you. Confusing, isn’t it? That is, until you see who has commissioned the study and what agenda they are trying to further.

    I can only say, from having read reports and analyses of various games on here, that my interpretation of a significant proportion of contentious decisions differs from that of writers on Untold.

  80. Fine JimB, but until you publish your data we can’t do a comparison. Added to which our sample level is way above that used in most scientific studies.

  81. When you don’t hear me say we will win, it means we very much might not win.

    When you hear me say the formation we can win with and the style and game plan for that win, but suggest defeat based on exactly the presenters set out in out format, poor luck and approach. I mean it.

    I challenge you to read my dissertation and observe we lost exactly as I said we’d lose, implementing none of the winking attribute I said were required.

    Gary Neville i didn’t have on my commentary, nor Hargreaves.

    When Gary tends to go Arsenal bashing, I usually agree with 90% of his criticisms, although I am concerned about how he delivers those on air. I am reminded of how he envied our style and the quality of the team he faces.

    In fact I have heard him rage about his own beloved United. But they have improved and he understands what Jose is doing, even ignoring he disagrees.

    I failed to observe anyone blame Neville for the loss also.

    He may be after Wenger, but I see a situation of 2 years transfer budget available earlier than usual and o count a need for around 6 players. If they don’t oust him before the summer. It’s over.

    I genuinely trust Wenger and lost of the team, I am concerned with the injury to Monreal, Corzorla’s rehab and a quick pick me up for the next City game.

    I’m not scared of Milan. Welbeck gets into all the right places, that’s why it looks so bad. Complaining isn’t going to help him focus and find his form.

    Whoever tries to suggest there is no bias is delusional. And that is one hell of a mountain, but this was a freebie and affects nothing.

    We played to formations back to front in the last 2 games.

    And Steve what are you coaching them, unless…. as usual there is more than meets the eye!

  82. @Jim B

    If I tell you that

    -Tottenham had gone 85 games without a red card in the league – between Vlad Chiriches red card v Stoke in 2014-15 until Serge Aurier’s second yellow this season,

    -Tottenham had gone 85 games without a red card in the league while being one of the dirtiest team in the league in terms of fouls made,

    -Tottenham had gone 85 games without a red card in the league while having three retrospective bans for the players (which means they should have been sent off in the real time) – Alli, Dembele and Sissoko,

    -that the referee Mark Clattenburg admitted he didn’t go by the book in the notorious Chelsea v Tottenham game as it would have meant at least three or four red cards for Tottenham players because he was afraid of the media reactions after the game (which is absolutely scandalous),

    -that the Tottenham manager has admitted he sees diving as a legitimate tactic and hasn’t been either asked to clarify that comment of his or even crucified by the media,

    which conclusion can a reasonable, neutral person make of it?

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