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From when is not winning the FA cup worrying?

By Walter Broeckx

In another article I tried to find out when we should win the league to keep up with our own history books and records. And I tried to do the same thing for the other teams in the PL.

Today I will do the same but for the FA cup. As the FA cup has a history of some 130 years I had to use this number as the point to look at. I will not repeat the whole reasoning why I feel that we should look at the whole history of a club and not just the last 10 years or so.

When you become a supporter of a club you support the club for and take it as a whole. You don’t pick out the cherries on the cake. No you also eat the dry cake. [Is that a Flemish expression Walter?   I think the nearest English expression is “take the rough with the smooth” – but your version is much more apt.  I think I’ll start using it – Tony] And cake can be dry and hard to swallow but as a supporter you have to take it all.

So is the FA cup record a reason to use the Arsenal hasn’t won anything in X years mantra that the media and some desperate fans use valid?

Once again I took out my calculator and started calculating. And this is what I found for the teams who are currently in the PL when it comes to Fa cup wins.

Club Years FA cup Avg cups Last won Moaning point
Man Utd 130 11 11,82 2004 2015
Arsenal 130 10 13,00 2005 2018
Tottenham 130 8 16,25 1991 2007
Aston Villa 130 7 18,57 1957 1975
Liverpool 130 7 18,57 2006 2029
Blackburn 130 6 21,67 1928 1950
Chelsea 104 6 17,33 2010 2027
Newcastle 130 6 21,67 1955 1977
Everton 130 5 26,00 1995 2021
WBA 130 5 26,00 1968 1994
Bolton 130 4 32,50 1958 1990
Man City 130 4 32,50 1969 2001
Wolves 130 4 30,25 1960 1990
West Ham 130 3 43,33 1980 2023
Sunderland 130 2 65,00 1973 2038
Blackpool 130 1 130,00 1953 2083

So again you can see that if we keep an eye on the entire history of our club we still have another few years before we really have to start worrying about not winning the FA cup. As we only win it normally every 13 years. So 6 years is not even halfway such a cycle.

There are other clubs who should have won it to keep up with their own records. Tottenham should have won it a few years ago. And again the same old clubs with a rich history come in bold as the underachievers.

Also Manchester City is such an underachiever. They should have won the FA cup in 2001 to keep up with their own history. They will have a chance to win it this season but then still this is 10 years behind their normal schedule. And it will be the most expensive cup win ever I think. No owner ever will have paid more money to win the FA cup.

Now does this article (and my other article) mean that we should not be hungry to win anything? NO. But it should remind us fans that winning is not some kind of god given right to us. It never has been. The Manchester United fans may think it is their god given right for the moment. But nothing is eternal in football. After a good period comes a bad period.

We have gone through bad periods in our long history for many many years. Periods if you compare them to the current ‘6 years of failure’ (as some call it) who were so dark and full of real gloom and doom that finishing in the top 4 each year is far away from failure.

And keep in mind we are not playing with team on the same playing field. We are doing it on our own. No rich sugar daddy who is paying the bills. No, we pay our own bills. We work within our means unlike other clubs.

Some will want to trade this for a trophy but a trophy at all costs can be the beginning of the end. Just ask Portsmouth.

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19 comments to From when is not winning the FA cup worrying?

  • Dark Prince

    As i said earlier, this method is quite silly. The fact that chelsea’s fans wont moan or have a problem in winnin a trophy till 2027 is clearly idiotic.

  • Cape Gooner

    Blackpool might have only won it once in 130 years, but it was probably the most famous win of all time!

  • Alek

    Walter.
    7 years to wait a moaning point is so long. This is a torment for some fans. Some fans want to moan today)))

  • Sensible Opinion

    What exactly is the point of all these statistical blogs? We are Arsenal fans not statisticians. We have’nt won a trophy since 2005…fact…that is the only statistic we are interested in and reflects poorly on Mr Wenger’s management…or lack of.

  • walter

    a bit of perspective and maybe a little 😉 that is all there is to look for

  • Nikko

    Now I wonder how many Arsenal managers that won nothing.

  • GunnerfanUSA

    of those 10, Arsene has won 4 of them, but that’s right he doesn’t know what he’s doing! Lol, ridiculous

  • maki

    Walter,

    Imagine you get laid for the first time at 14 years old, according to you one should not be satisfied until 28, then 56 is this what you are saying? 🙂 Your calculation is broken friend, it doesn`t take into account some essential dynamics! :p

  • walter

    Nikko,
    The Managers:

    Sam Hollis 1894 – 1897: won nothing
    Thomas Brown Mitchell 1897 – 1898: won nothing
    George Elcoat 1898 – 1899: won nothing
    Harry Bradshaw 1899 – 1904 : won nothing
    Phil Kelso : 1904 – 1908 : won nothing
    George Morrell : 1908 – 1915 : won nothing
    Leslie Knighton : 1919 – 1925: won nothing
    Herbert Chapman : 1925 – 1934 : 1 FA cup, 2 league titles (and a half)
    George Allison : 1934 – 1947 : 1 FA cup and 2 league titles
    Tom Whittaker : 1947 – 1956 : 1 Fa cup and 2 league titles
    Jack Crayston : 1956 – 1958: won nothing
    George Swindin : 1958 – 1962 : won nothing
    Billy Wright: 1962 – 1966 : won nothing
    Bertie Mee: 1966 – 1976 : 1 European Cup, 1 league and Fa cup double
    Terry Neill : 1976 – 1983: 1 FA cup
    Don Howe : 1984 – 1986 : won nothing
    George Graham: 1986 – 1995 : 1 European cup, 2 league titles, 1 Fa cup and 2 League cups
    Stewart Houston: 1995 and 1996 : won nothing
    Bruce Rioch: 1995 – 1996 : won nothing
    Arsène Wenger : 1996 – Present : 3 league titles, 4 FA cups (one double and one season unbeaten)

    We had 20 managers so far in our history and 7 of them have brought us something.
    Wenger has brought us 7 trophies under his management. G. Graham has won 6 and comes in second place. In third place we have Chapman, Allison and Whittaker with 3 trophies each of them.

  • walter

    20 manager in 125 years…. this really is a low number I think. If my memory is still a bit correct I think our friendly neighbours have had that many managers alone in the last 10 years… 😉

  • Edda

    Another great article, it may put some things in perspective for some of our younger fans who cannot remember when we 7 points from beeing relegated in 1993 just 2 years after winning the title. There ARE NO GUARANTEE’S IN FOOTBALL !!! When will people understand this ? If spending 50 million pounds would have won us the league AW would have done it every year. But how can spending 50 mill guarantee us winning it and when Spurs spend double that they always come behind us ???
    I am 100% sure that we will get some changes in the summmer, but 3-4 new players and 5-6 players out will not guarantee us even top 4 next year. Football is about small bits of luck and small decisions from refs and if the ball hits the post and goes in or out for a goal kick. (we have hit the post 21! times this season). All the money in the world cannot help it if u have all the bad luck our team have had this season!

  • Edda

    I my last post i complained about the bad luck we have had this season. I will try to explain this with a few points :

    #1. The fixture list
    Isnt it strange that we have to go to Liverpool in the first match of the season, while both Man Utd and Chelsea are playing newly promoted sides at home ?
    #2. Missed penalty
    We actually managed to get a lucky point at Liverpool and then won the 3 next games, and had a 1-0 lead away at Sunderland when Rosicky missed a 73rd min penalty. This is unlucky in itself, if only RVP were there to take it… But we were even more unlucky when Bent scored in the 94th to make it 1-1.
    #3. Giving away easy leads!
    Maybe this isnt just as much about bad luck as lack of experience in the team, but when we were leading 2-0 home against Spurs at the ems we were playing them off the pitch. That first half is one of the best 45 mins of football i have seen this season. U might say the same about the 3-3 game at WHL but that game was abit different because even spurs played some great football there and 3-3 was a fair result. I might have been a habbit for the team this year to give away leads, but i trust the guys to learn from it untill next year.
    #4. Referee decisions
    The most annoying setback this year might be the 2 spurs games, but the 4-4 game at Newcastle is even worse to take because i cannot blame our players at all for this. That we even got a point after conceding 2 (yes TWO) ridiculous penalties is more than any other team would manage.
    #5. More referee decisions
    I have alread mentioned the spurs game at home, and the turning point of that game was the penalty given for a handball in the wall. That was a clear penalty so no complaints there, BUT when the same thing happend in the last minuted at Wigan (at 2-2) we didnt get a penalty.
    #6. Even more referee descisions
    I watch a lot of football on TV from many different countries and i love watching Champions League matches. One of the best aspect about the CL is the standard of the referees they are mostly much better than their colleagues in england. BUT that was before our game at the Nou Camp this year. The sending off of RVP was the worst referee decision I have ever seen, EVER! This will probably never happen to us again, and i hope to any other team as well.
    #7. And guess what, yet even more referee descisions
    After scoring a penalty in the 98th minute we really should be able to keep calm and win the game, and i thought we actually did that because the ref had added a minimum of 8 mins and liverpool got a free kick in the 100th minute so if the kick didnt go in the ref would surely blow his whistle for full time. But no, he waited 5 more seconds and got fooled by lucas who stumbled right in front of eboue. Was there contact ? Maybe, but who can that be a penalty when Blackpool didnt get a clear penalty against United (when they were 2-0 up) when Rafael (or Fabio) ran a man over in the penalty area ?

  • Several comments in this column have been stopped because they had nothing to do with the original article. What interests me is that despite the fact that I have been advertising editorial move widely for some time, people still insist on sending in comments that have nothing to do with the article. Odd really.

    (And yes I know this has nothing to do with the article – sorry Walter – but I am getting lots of abuse from people whose comments have not appeared, and I wish they would stop).

  • mike in Atlanta

    referee decisions are blighting the beautiful game. referees must be relegated if they can’t meet a minimum standard. the least the association could do is publish a set of rules and enforce them with relegation at the end of the season. the bottom three refs should go down to the championships and fight for their cushy salary the next season.
    it would be a simple matter for the premier league to force the referees to accept this, unless of course, they don’t care about television ratings. why should i not watch serie a or la liga rather than subject myself to a league that looks like it may be fixed at best, or run by incompetents at worse?
    once again walter, your statistics are superb. pay no attention to the detractors who can’t even memorize their own postal code and who do not yet realize this is a blog for grown-ups.

  • Mr Venger

    Good article ( nothing wrong woth the format, why shouldn’t we as fans respect and be aware of the history of the club?) which hopefully encourages people to look at the bigger picture rather than beleive the hysteria that surounds this club.
    Good points Edda, but there’r plenty , more bogus decisions you just touched the tip of the ice berg in that list!

  • walter

    come on guys you are already starting my season ref review.;-) I have started now with gathering the numbers as there are only 4 games to play and the conclusions can be made. Hold yourself for some nice articles about the refs in a few weeks time.

    @Tony: have you never had cake that was dry and crumbly and you had to wash it away with some wather or whatever other drink? Thats the one I was talking about (and it was a rather very local expression)

  • Brickfields Gunners

    Walter, should it not be 2 doubles for Wenger(1998 & 2002)?Nice post too – I was thinking along the same lines- in future when I refer to a club , I will write/say ,club so & so ,who have not won the EPL/FA/Carling /Champions League /Charity Sheild/Emirates cup, for xx number of years ,are crap/shite/blah,blah…etc.
    Let us see how they like it .
    While at it I may refer to pundits as having been a drunkard , an adulterer , a catamite ,a gambler, a wife beater ,a curb-crawler, etc.
    If I ‘m really pissed ,I’ll use terms that they may not comprehend like cunning linguist ,origamist ,thespians , masticators , genuflectors and practising Homo Sapians !

  • walter

    Brickfield, you are right. Sorry my mistake.

  • Yommex

    A suggestion please Walter. Could you please include the thumbs up and thumbs down boxes alongside the various comments. This is to give room for a feedback on these comments. Thanks