By Tony Attwood
“That facts that nowadays the manager clearly hasn’t got a clue about how to set up a team tactically, that his ability to motivate his players is conspicuously lacking and that his Midas touch has gone into reverse, when it comes to developing talent, count for nothing when you consider his stellar achievements of over a decade ago. Why question the present or worry about the future when the past is so comforting?”
That sarcastic comment is typical of the viewpoint that we have seen put forwards a number of times on this site. There is no evidence, no attempt at evidence, but just assertion. It is to be found in commentaries on this site, and as the mainstream view on some other sites.
It is statement as argument. I say it, you know it is true.
And it is something I’ve really got very bored with. I don’t want to argue about this type of statement any more, every point has been made, there is no communication going on between the sides, so it is time to stop. This is the last post of the issue of evidence and the subjects that flow from that.
As a guy who developed an interest in science early on, and who values the scientific method as the best way, indeed the only way, to make sense of the world, I have been shocked at the way things have gone in this debate.
I genuinely did believe, until I started Untold, that most people did understand the notion of science, analysis, statistics, sampling etc. How wrong could I be!
The arguments have raged – including the one that says you can draw no conclusions unless you measure everything which to me was the most bizarre one of the lot, as it overthrew the whole basis of science is overthrown.
And then mixed up with this vision is a third strand – a strand that takes anyone’s views, misrepresents them, and then claims the enemy at the gates can be identified.
Take a look at this
Those who treat any questioning of the manager as disloyalty towards the club are the real AAA. Sometimes, in order to achieve a greater long term goal, it’s necessary to accept a short term loss. That is why a growing number of Arsenal fans would accept a season where we won nothing and didn’t qualify for the CL, if it guaranteed that Wenger would leave. Every abysmal failure like last night (and there have been countless similar failures in recent years) clearly shows that the manager is the problem and that change is essential if the club is to progress.
You’ll note the development of a thesis here. The notion that in order to accept progress you have to accept short term loss, is propositioned. It is a fair point – a reasonable start for debate. But there is no evidence that this is the case no analysis of clubs that have tried this. No questioning, in fact.
No asking what happened to Liverpool? Is there a “growing number?” No, it is a notion, put forward as a fact, and accepted as a fact, and thus a fact. Note also the “countless failures” too.
What there also isn’t is any context. The fact that Arsenal has no absolute right to be in the top four, the fact that Arsenal has a new stadium built during a financial collapse, the existence of clubs backed by fortunes Arsenal could never have behind it….
So we have the next strand. Simplicity of argument.
Just to reiterate, no acceptance of the scientific method, assertion instead of logical progression, the concept of progress only being possible in certain ways, and the removal of context to great a simple point.
I fully recognise I came into all this in a naive way. I didn’t expect to convert anyone, but I didn’t think the entrenchment of notion that science should be overthrown, assertion replace logic, “progress” only be possible my way, and context removed, could be so deep.
I think it is time to wind the argument up now. Everyone knows why Untold exists – it is to counter those four views which some of us think are not only wrong in any debate about Arsenal, but also in any debate. The approach which any self respecting university lecturer would give a z minus to and send a note to admissions asking why this person was allowed into the institution.
But as promised before, I will end up with a reprint of a set of statements that one person gave, and then claimed he had given a lot of evidence. It was that claim – that a lot of evidence had been given – that made me think it was time to stop the argument. It is just so palpably untrue in my estimation that I can’t see how to conduct the debate. It is as if those of us who deblieve in putting forward logical arguments with evidence are on another planet from these guys.
But I’ll make a point I’ve made before. Untold doesn’t refuse to publish views that are different from those of myself and the other regular writers on the site. What we don’t publish are contrary points which show no evidence and logical debate whatsoever. And we don’t because there are already so many websites out there which do accept this overthrow of science and logic as the norm. So the anti-science anti-logic anti-context writers have plenty of places to express themselves.
The writer made this point…
Tony I have used stats and evidence to back up my point.what part of being 12 points off Chelsea ,being out of the title race in November, being out worst start in 30 years and winning one fa cup in 10 years is not true??
And here are the posts which he had posted before and which he claims contained stats and evidence. [Incidentally no matter how you measure it this season wasn’t the worst start in 30 years – but then there is also the point – why doese the start matter? We had a crummy start to the Second Double Season but won the Double (ans the title suggests). But that is how this debate goes – make a point without actually expressing coherently why it is important. Would it matter if this was the worst start in 30 years if the outcome was good?]
1. The referee was a disgrace yesterday!!Everything went the way of the spuds.
2. Mandy… Dont think kronke demands any sort of success apart from finishing in the top 4 .Which in turn makes him money
3 ob1977 If he didn’t take money out of the club we would be more competetive and surely have a higher chance of challenging for major honours and not just chasing 4th place year after year.Surely that is what we all want unless you are happy with mediocrity.
4 What is it with these cheating referees .We have been assaulted all over the pitch.Definitely a conspiracy to stop us winning the league..
5 Tony lets hope that some of the extra money filters down to the fans,some of us who are already paying £1200 a season for their season ticket.Its stated that players earn enough and none of that money should go to improved wages,i second that and also that should extend to managers who also are earning a fortune as well.Why can’t we get back to rewarding good performances ??
6 Menace You keep going on like most on here about all our injuries caused by being ASSAULTED on the field of play and not getting protection from most of the referees that are cheating.Why are they cheating???Who is telling them to cheat???There must be a leader of this group.And do you think this group of cheats extends into europe and we will be cheated by european referees???Is it a worldwide conspiracy???And who is the leader???Maybe sepp blatter has got it in for arsenal.I would like to hear your answer.
7 That was as ad as I’ve seen in ages.an awful team performance from players and manager. OMG because Danish can tell the truth and it doesn’t conform to your thinking that everything at arsenal is rosy doesn’t meet that he’s crawled out of a sewer.some of you on here are completely blinkered and cant see that our manager probably has taken us as far as he can.
At least this time you can’t blame it all on the referee and opposing players.
8 Congo.Have you ever played football? It had nothing to do with luck.we were outplayed and tactically out thought by a team who were missing many key players and we’re recognised to be the worst team left in the competition.
Why is it that if we can’t blame the refs,opposition players,pundits and injuries we can still blame it all on luck.
9 Tony please stop there with your comparison with giroud and Henry. Your making yourself look stupid.The only thing they have in common is their both french. thierry would of got in a world eleven in his day.giroud on the other hand wouldn’t get in any of the other top 6 pre league sides .
10 Tony You are saying that people who post on here have to agree with what you say or they will be banned.Everyone who has an opinion (and people have different opinions) from yours are going to be called children??how very strange .Some posters on here can see that whilst you post figures and stats on here from the last 2 months and class them as superb ,stunning , amazing and incredible the real truth is that most think that the team and manager should be doing better than what we are.The main stat showing that we are 12 points off Chelsea ,we’re out of the title race in November and had the worst start in the league for over 30 years.Hell we have one one trophy in 10 years.
11 Can I politely ask you why my post is in moderation??is it because I dare to have a different opinion to you tony?what I am sing is that you only want people to post on here who are in total agreement with you and think your posts are brilliant.
Anniversary of the day (proving that the last game is not always an indicator of how things are going.
- 2 March 1998: WHU 0 Arsenal 0. 27th league game of the 2nd Double season The second double: part 1, part 2, part 3.
Tony
You say:
“That sarcastic comment is typical of the viewpoint that we have seen put forwards a number of times on this site. There is no evidence, no attempt at evidence, but just assertion. It is to be found in commentaries on this site, and as the mainstream view on some other sites.”
I give you this response to some statistics I posted that supported my opinion that Ozil is playing pretty well:
“ZOON
March 2, 2015 at 3:25 pm
Statistics don’t play games. We all know Ozil has not played well even you know it and just are just using your statistics to prove what a wonderful fan you are who is never negative. I have seen enough games and players to know he has been a disappointment with my own eyes. Don’t be a sheep post your own opinions you never know you might like it.”
Is that the sort of thing you where refereeing to?
The arguments, yours and those who oppose your views, have little to nothing to do with science, but more to do with opinion and attitude. Many who oppose your opinion believe another manager could have taken more risks and done a better job with the
resources available, while you seem to believe, or at least offer the view, that the manager was correct to play it safe and that nobody could have done a better job while offering financial restrictions and other clubs finances as mitigation for lack of silverware. As you tell your clients Tony,
neither party can be wrong. Publishing the contradictory rants of an upset fan does not
negate his views or similar ones, as much as it does not negate yours.
ThomB
“Many who oppose your opinion believe another manager could have taken more risks and done a better job with the
resources available,”
Of course they could.
But equally you could say:
“someone could of won the PL, CL, FA Cup every year for the last 9 years without spending a penny”
doesn’t make it so though does it?
The point is anyone can make those assertion’s. It’s easy when you don’t have to provide any evidence, or statistics to back it up.
Which, if you bothered to read instead of firing off, is exactly what I am saying. NO PARTY can be wrong, its about opinion and its not exactly science
Tony, am clueless as to why you bother so much. Why do you elect to chase such a lost cause this way? The deafest person is the one who doesn’t want to hear (dont remember where I picked that up from). Those set in their ways to expect
Arsenal and Wenger to end badly, season after season, are never going to change. Use all the science and statistics you can muster. It wont change their minds.
Did anyone notice that one of the favourite candidates to take over Wenger’s job, Martinez of Everton, was out-thought, out-fought and generally well-beaten yesterday, by a Wenger who has lost it and has taken us as far as he possibly can? Or am I the only one to notice? Or maybe am deluded and cant see the facts seen by everybody?
Maybe Wenger hasn’t really lost it and still has a trick or two to show the world. Being third on the the log and breathing down the neck of ‘their’ favourite team (Man City) hardly strikes me as the achievement of a rubbish team coached by a clueless coach. And this season isn’t over by a long shot!
ThomB – The evidence, in terms of transfer and wage spend suggest that Arsenal should finish no higher than 4th – being some way behind Chelsea, MC and MU. In fact, in terms of net transfer spend, Arsenal should be somewhere in the bottom half!
The evidence also states that Arsenal have increased their number of points in the PL over the past 4 seasons (although may not make it this season).
My opinion is that to consistently finish in the Top 4, and qualify from the CL group, is a significant achievement and that your expectations are inconsistent with the reality.
My opinion is that Wenger has done as well as anyone else could have been expected to do over the last 10 years.
My opinion is that Wenger will continue to over-achieve – which is quite an exciting thought given that we are at last starting to be able to spend some money – if not at the level of Chelsea, MC and MU.
ThomB
I’m not ‘firing off’ as you put it, I’m just saying that opinion is fine, but just suggesting somebody could of done better than Wenger, without a shred of evidence to support such an opinion, greatly undermines its credibility.
-What Wenger has done is fact.
-What he has done, on a relatively minute budget compared to his direct rivals is a fact.
-The only Clubs to of achieved more than Arsenal over the last 9 years have annual net spends of 50 50 and 25 million quid respectively
These are facts. Irrefutable facts. Not opinion.
To suggest somebody else could of done better, under the same circumstances, is pure speculation and flies entirely in the face of all the evidence we have that supports the theory that, the more money you have, the more you will win.
Considering 3 sides in the PL have been operating with virtually infinite budgets, the notion that someone could of ‘done better’ than Wenger is fanciful in the extreme.
Yes it is an opinion, but I would suggest a highly speculative and Mischievous one.
Hmmm! Item 9 made me laugh. When I was studying maths in those days, there is this branch of maths called arithmetic progression that I studied. It is primarily on counting or increasing in numbers that will eventually reach a point the counting will reach saturation point. Which is called infinity or zero (0). Now, could it be said the boss has taken the Premier League by storm and recorded rapid success by winning many titles in his first 9 years in charge of AFC. Then saturated and remained dormant by not winning any title for 8 years until the boss went back to start counting again from the beginning and won the FA Cup last year and later won the Charity Sheild this year – 2 titles already won since the beginning of another counting – of another arithmetic progression which is far from reaching the saturation point. So, Arsenal fans need to exercise patient. “The vulture is a patient bird.” – James Hardly Chase. Arsenal will win more titles this season. We are still competing on 3 fronts. Are we not? Despite the boss becoming pessimistic when the Blues were leading us in the table by 15 points, I remain upmistic. And the next 3 games played by the top 4 teams will make the Gooners to start getting upmistic the Gunners can catch the Citizens and the Blues and beat them to the title with Arsenal’s total of 84 points. As for our FA Cup game at Old Trafford on Monday next week and the Champions League return leg game at Stade Louise II, victories for the Gunners in those two games is a foregone conclusion. Quate me.
@ Jambug, Well said. Thank you.
Would’ve loved to scream at somebody, “leave Wenger alone, you lot, and go play with yourself” … but then, I think I should mind my manners…..
Stan
“The deafest person is the one who doesn’t want to hear… ” this one made me chuckle. I was contemplating posting something to that effect a little earlier on the other thread talking about Ozil. In my culture we have a saying that goes something like of you’re going to argue with someone who doesn’t have the capacity to see your point you might as well give up. Coz he will never see what you’re trying to point out, and will most likely conclude that you’re mad. I suspect this is the case with so many of these posters, they just go who the hell does Tony think he is to argue against all these writers from all these famous newspapers. Believing what they read in the papers is so firmly entrenched in their psyches that nothing will make them change their views. I think that’s the biggest issue causing major differences between Arsenal fans; those that don’t trust the media will see the injustices that are perpetrated by the refs and everyone else against our team, and those that believe what they read in the papers to be the gospel will dismiss the notion of biased referees etc, as fantasy, coz the papers dismiss or don’t even talk about those things too. It can’t be coincidence. The subset of fans who believe the media often use examples of other teams against us, without acknowledging that no other team gets the same treatment as Arsenal in the media. Oddly those that believe what they read in the papers will not own up to believing what they read in the press, while those that don’t read the press are upfront about not believing a word they read in these rags. I don’t think I have seen anyone here who criticises the media and also firmly believe Wenger should go at the same time. There are some moderates who appear to acknowledge the press sometimes isn’t fair on us, but come across more as fence sitters who are quick to criticise the team when things go wrong. I think the first thing we should agree on, or at least be open if we disagree, and supported by evidence, is that Arsenal don’t get a fair shake in the media. Anyway, hope I articulated this in an understandable way; composing a post on a mobile phone ain’t easy, that’s why my posts usually have typos 🙂
Hmmm! Your item 9 made me to laugh. When I was studying maths in those days, there is this branch of maths called arithmetic progression that I studied. It is primarily on counting upwards or the increasing of numbers that will eventually reach a point the counting or the increasing will reach saturation point. Which is called infinity or zero (0). Now, could it be said that the boss has taken the Premier League by storm when he came in and recorded rapid successes by winning many titles in his first 9 years in charge of AFC. Then got saturated and remained dormant by not winning any title for 8 years or so until he went back to the basic start counting again from the beginning. And starts by winning the FA Cup last year and later won the Charity Sheild this year – 2 titles already won since the beginning of another counting or another arithmetic progression that is far away from reaching the saturation point. So, Arsenal fans need to exercise patient. “The vulture is a patient bird.” – James Hardly Chase. Arsenal will win more titles this season. We are still competing on 3 fronts. Are we not? Despite the boss becoming pessimistic when the Blues were leading us in the table by 15 points, I remain upmistic. And the next 3 games played by the top 4 teams will make the Gooners to start getting upmistic the Gunners can catch the Citizens and the Blues and beat them to the title with Arsenal’s total 84 points. As for our FA Cup game at Old Trafford on Monday next week, and the Champions League return leg game at Stade Louise II. Victories for the Gunners in those two games is a foregone conclusion. Quate me.
Pete- i did not say what my expectations were, I did not say whether I thought the manager has over or under achieved. I said that it is a matter of opinion, not science.
Regarding evidence, it could be argued that the the club with 4th largest wage bill consistently comes 4th. Its all selective-nobody is right or wrong. And back to my original point, and the only poibt I made; it
certainly cannot be settled with any scientific or empirical evidence as the author
suggests.
@ThomB
We’re not coming 4th this time, we’re finishing higher.
Well said Tony but rational and evidence-based arguments totally escape the pessimist and life is shit poster you described in your article. They really aren’t interested in a dialogue, they want to ” prove” their viewpoint or opinion regardless of reality or verifiable evidence and what they interpret as ” factual” are thinly disguised wishful thinking and monologues unrelated to what actually is.
I have been feeling that the aaa posters we invariably face after a defeat or poor performance are actually a tiny clique who bombard this site with rubbish in the hope that some of this shite will stick. The fact that there is often one poster using multiple e-mail IDs is indicative of an organized and sophisticated conspiracy perhaps?
Tony
I think that if you’re going to allow aaa comments, you should still publish articles like this one.
I chose not to look at any articles for a couple of days after Wednesdays defeat, simply because depressometors would inevitably have a field day.
Bearing in mind that the depressed’s main aim is to make sure everyone else gets depressed, rather than being or remaining merely disappointed. Then they come with their shite. Indeed, they come with their shite even if Arsenal win!
So, the shitemeisters need to continue to be called out. Children.
You really made an entire article to have a go at one of your readers? I hope you’re granting him the ability to do the same, if not, then shame on you.
@ pete,
spot on mate.
@ thomb,
ever heard of social science? not all science is black and white with exact numbers and definitive answers. in social science you rarely have definitive answers, but you still use scientific method, analysis and statistics (and the correlation to the issue) in order to make informed arguments and hopefully the right decision.
for example, how to use funds to redevelop a poor community. theres no ‘right’ answer. but you can use scientific methodology to help make better decisions based on sound logic and data.
the idea that with football it all boils down to opinion is right to a certain extent, in that we have preconceived and tribal attitudes. i think the point here is that when you make statements and offer your opinion i.e your hypothesis….that you do it with sound logical arguments backed up by data or examples.
you can apply scientific thinking and methods to any and every subject. tony is absolutely correct in wanting to apply some measure of that here.
This poster can’t even get his ‘facts’ correct. As we won 2 trophies in the period he mentioned. 😉
And I remember him saying things like: “I bet you will not post my comment” in his comments.
This article and some of the comments following on from the article about Chelsea’s transfer activity is , well incredible
Tony’ said ” here is no evidence, no attempt at evidence, but just assertion” Yet he had suspions so that was ok
Jam bug said “The point is anyone can make those assertion’s. It’s easy when you don’t have to provide any evidence, or statistics to back it up.” Yet last week when asked to produce evidence to support a statement of fact made by him he came up with a comment about an Elephant
Football is all about opinions. Could another manger have done better than AW? Possibly yes possibly no but as there is no way of knowing either one way or the another for its impossible to re run the exact same situation so it’s all about an opinion and neither side in such a debate will be able to produce the evidence that would show that the opposing view is incorrect
@Mike T, the evidence so far is that a Chelsea fan seems to have the best opinion. What is the world coming to?
Refusing to publish a comment, however flawed the argument maybe, is something that I cannot get myself to agree with. Tony, you are against comments that are purely opinions without any basis. But isn’t that what comments are meant to be? Sure, a lot of research does go into UA’s articles, but to expect the comments to conform to that standard is sometimes too exacting! True, the more well reasoned a comment is, the better but sometimes ‘baseless’ comments are a good reflection of what people feel.
Such a system is also very likely to display double standards. Would a view lacking ‘evidence’ in support of the article be censored? Do all the articles, for that matter, display the same standards? Take, for example, an assertion that Suarez bit Chiellini to force a move to Barca. Based on fact, proof or conjecture? I am not faulting UA on making that suggestion- everyone has his/her own view and the world would be a dull place if we are not allowed to express them. We are talking about football here, not maths- evidence and proof can get us only so far- opinions and subjective interpretations help us fill the gaps. Whatever be the case, as long as the person maintains a degree of civility while commenting, he has the right to be heard.
Hrishi you make a very valid point, and it is one that I have pondered for years. I think the current situation is the result of years of attack from people who are against the very essence of Untold – and as I have said before it is a bit like writing to Stamp Collecting Weekly and saying stamp collecting is rubbish. It generally doesn’t add to the debate in any meaningful way.
What’s more we have a problem in that those against the essence of what Untold stands for can be highly abusive, and put forward the same point of view over and over again. How many times did we need to be told that Ramsey was appalling and should be given away on a free transfer to avoid embarrassment – which is what we got during the guy’s early years?
Not only does it seem pointless to me to publish such stuff but also it is pointless to publish it over and over and over again. Someone says Giroud is a liability. I write back and say he has a league goalscoring record equivalent to Henry. A person writes in and says Giroud is a liability. Where does that take us?
Mike T – yes football is about opinions, and Untold is founded on a set of opinions. So other people have other opinions, which they cite as fact, over and over and over and over again. What’s the point of publishing them on Untold? At least when I have opinions with no factual evidence, as in the Chelsea article, I can come out and say it.
@Mike T
the question is, when an opinion, is proven to be true by all the stats and despite all the arguements thrown at it, remains true, can the opinion be considered a fact or in fact… it’s a fact all the while?
Well, as expected, the “being entitled to one’s opinion” argument re-surfaces, so I have to re-post this excellent article which basically says – no, you are only entitled to what you can argue for.
I advise everyone to read it – it’s short, very well written, and serves as a very good answer to all of the “opinionated-self-appointed-no-facts-managers”.
http://theconversation.com/no-youre-not-entitled-to-your-opinion-9978
Thank me later.
Tony, I understand your point well. The continuous recycling of opinions disguised as fact can get on our nerves. I do get that you are justified, in a way, to pursue this current policy. The very fact that there are justifications on both sides is what makes it debatable. We have our reasons and accordingly consider the pros and cons, but the weight attributed to these pros and cons is where we differ- the realm of subjectivity. And hence, we will have to agree to disagree here.
Mike T
I recall the debate and my answer.
I did concede, as did the author of the original article, that at this moment there is no irrefutable proof of wrong doing by Chelsea FC.
It is also true that the poster I was debating with directly, which wasn’t you, conceded that “it is likely Chelsea are cheating FFP regulations”.
He knows it, I know it, and I think you know it, proof or no proof.
My point was that the owner of Chelsea FC is a self confessed criminal, admitting to bribing Government officials and using Gangsters for protection. He has obtained his Fortune, at least in part, with criminal activities. He admits as much.
He purchased Chelsea with part of those ill gotten gains.
Criminality has been a big part of his ‘Modus operandi’ in his business dealings outside Chelsea FC.
Answer me this, why would he change for his Business dealings with Chelsea?
On the face of it and to a laymen the monies exchanging hands for certain Chelsea players looks massively inflated.
Argue all you want but that’s how it looks.
Okay I concede no proof, but here’s another couple of old sayings.
ONCE A CRIMINAL ALWAYS A CRIMINAL
A LEAPOARD NEVER CHANGES IT’S SPOTS
” That is why a growing number of Arsenal fans would accept a season where we won nothing and didn’t qualify for the CL, if it guaranteed that Wenger would leave. ”
BEEEB !
WRONG !
The only thing I see is a growing stupidity . But then again you are welcome to your alternative reality .
And the last time I saw , the stadium still fills up for the home games . And I suppose that the waiting list is still growing?
We ,the AKBs WILL continue to support the club in any way we can .
I also take great pride in the fact that most AKBs don’t engage ‘THEM’ here , so much so some of their comments sound extra stupid ( Yes ,they really can!).
WOO HOO , HOO !
Up the Gunners !
We do not need to proselytise either by our speech or by our writing. We can only do so really with our lives. Let our lives be open books for all to study.
(Mohandas K. Gandhi)
Not the Same ? A second opinion .
A surgeon was checking on a patient who had a hernia operation three days before.
The doctor asked the man why he had not gotten out of bed. “I hurt,” the man said. “You don’t know how it feels.”
“I know exactly how it feels,” the doctor said. “I had the same procedure last month, and I was back at work two days later. There’s no difference in our operations.”
“Oh yes there is,” said the patient. “You had a different surgeon.”
Screw him !
It was George the Mailman’s last day.
As he did his final rounds he reached the door of the first house and was greeted by a elderly couple who gave him a gift certificate. At the next house, the entire family gave him a set of fishing lures, and at the third house he received a box of fine cigars.
But at the next house he was greeted by a sexy blonde wearing a skimpy negligee. Without a word, she signalled him to come inside. She gently took him upstairs and made mad passionate love to him. George certainly didn’t mind.
She then led him downstairs where she made him a huge breakfast of toast, sausage, eggs and hashbrowns. George was truly satisified. As he leaned forward to get his second cup of coffee, he noticed a dollar bill sticking out from under the cup.
Curious, he asks the blonde, ”This is all wonderful and I appreciate everything..but…what’s the dollar for?”
“Oh,” says the blonde, “I asked my husband last night what we should give you for your retirement. He said ‘Screw him! give him a dollar!’
She beamed at him. “The breakfast part was my idea!”
Who was it that questioned ‘Menace’? I call a cheat because I know he cheats. Who is in charge of these cheats – look at the head of PGMOL – the worst cheat of all – just watch the match against Man U for our 50th undefeated match. If you cannot see the obvious go & get your brain scanned & your eyes checked.
I have accused Riley in an email to the FA. They have referred me back to the cheat, ignoring their responsibility to maintain the honour of the game in England.
When a referee ‘dances with joy’ on blowing the final whistle in a cup final, does anyone think it is sporting or is it because he is practicing for ‘strictly come dancing’? The truth is it was because he was cheating & was glad of some benefit. Now before anyone comes up with why? how? prove it etc. I’m saying in plain English that the referee is still working for the FA. These are the cheats who are in charge of our beautiful game.
Back to the dildo who wanted to know why the referees cheat & do not protect our players. The answer is in the term dildo. It needs energy to vibrate while giving a fake sense of joy. Our PGMO have badges & uniforms but stink worse than rotting flesh when it comes to transparency & honesty. They are fake when it comes to sporting honesty as are their bosses the FA.
@Tony
The great Taylor Swift says it all…..
‘Cause the players gonna play, play, play, play, play
And the haters gonna hate, hate, hate, hate, hate
Baby, I’m just gonna shake, shake, shake, shake, shake
I shake it off, I shake it off
🙂
I think you’re wasting your time on this one. It’s an admirable waste of time though 🙂
The notion that Wenger doesn’t do tactics is laughable. I replied to a tweet from John Cross (of The Daily Mirror) on this after the Monaco game. His implication was that that Wenger got the tactics wrong. My response was that after the first Monaco goal the players didn’t follow them appropriately and lost the plot!
Regarding Ozil. Not every player plays well every game. Bergkamp didn’t and neither did Henry (remember the “we need a fox in the box” discussion?). Ozil’s form since returning from injury has been pretty good. His assist, goals and passing accuracy shows this.
@ Mike T
“Football is all about opinions.”
What complete nonsense. Football is not about opinions. If it were why would we bother counting how many goals each side scores or having league tables. In fact why bother having goals at all we could just debate who was the better side and who deserved the title at the end of the season!!! In fact, by your definition, the conclusion is that any opinion is equally as valid as the next. In which case I say Telford are better than Chelsea in the absolute certainty that my opinion is as valid as the person who takes a juxtapose position since as you so astutely conclude “it’s all about an opinion and neither side in such a debate will be able to produce the evidence that would show that the opposing view is incorrect”…………unless of course you wanted to take into account the scientific evidence in respect of relative league position but I don’t suppose that the fact that Telford are bottom of the Conference should play any part in the debate……………………………….
Keep your chin up, Tony. Those of us who appreciate reasoned opinions appreciate what Untold stand for. Also a shout out to jambug who always adds value to the conversation. We need the voices that differentiate between opinion derived from emotion and opinion derived from empirical evidence. However, I understand the scientific method is not in vogue these days in football or the rest of life. Re Mesut Ozil, please read my comment on the article “Arsenal-Everton, The Game We Had to Win”. A shame Tony & Walter have to publish stats of how much ground Ozil covers to prove his worth!
Goonermicky
That’s in essence what I’ve been trying to say to ZOON and ThomB.
Of course people are entitled to there opinion, and those opinions can be Juxtaposed.
But as you say, to suggest the ‘opinion’ that Telford are better than Chelsea is as valid as the ‘opinion’ that Chelsea are better than Telford, is ridiculous.
The reason being the ‘opinion’ that Telford are better than Chelsea is totally without support in fact or science, whereas the ‘opinion’ that Chelsea are better than Telford is thoroughly supported by facts and science.
Which brings me to my point that whilst you are entitled to the ‘opinion’ that Ozil has been a ‘failure’ and is ‘playing poorly’ it is an ‘opinion’ without any basis in fact or science what so ever.
Where as my ‘opinion’ that Ozil is a good buy and has been, and indeed is playing very well, IS completely supported by the facts and science.
Yes, of course everyone is entitled to there opinion, but not all opinions are equally valid, which your ‘Telford’ analogy explained so much better than I managed.
“Steve0
March 3, 2015 at 3:16 pm
Again Jam, this is the issue I have with our debate. I never, ever said or implied that I thought it was likely Chelsea were cheating FFP.”
This, from the more Arsenal purchases thread…
“Steve0
March 1, 2015 at 1:50 pm
Is it possible that Chelsea are cheating FFP? Sure. One thing I am certain of is that nobody here has presented a plausible theory about how yet.”
I think my reading is fine, whereas I think your memory needs a little work.
That pretty clearly says ‘possible’. ‘Possible’ does not mean the same thing as ‘likely’, nor is the definition similar. You should probably look those words up.
steveO
Stop digging you’re, looking silly now.
And more importantly, stop putting quotation marks around things I never wrote, and implying that I did. That’s beyond douchey.
After any avoidable loss, I just stay away from untold because some AAA’s will present themselves to be counted and I assume that they usually are counted more as nuts that can’t be cracked…no ability to look beyond their noses.