Written by Duduspace
What Type of Arsenal Fan are you?
I’ve done an analysis of Arsenal supporting friends in the real world and acquaintances on the internet and I’ve come to the conclusion that there are 3 types of Arsenal supporters.
1. THE FIRM
Those able to to logically access and discuss the true situation of the club with respect to what it competes against and its means. I’ve not seen any of such people with the facts laid before them who have not come to the conclusion that Arsene has done and is doing a great job.
At times they don’t really understand what he is doing but they look at his track record and give him the benefit of the doubt. They understand that on the basis of spending alone, Arsenal should be nowhere near the top 3 and are content to see the results of our various strategies to compete come to fruition given time.
This is where the media falls flat on its face because for their own reasons they muddle up the facts and some of these people are too busy in their real lives to seek out this information for themselves.
This is where a site like Untold has done a great job in putting this information out there, they have not only done this but also helped a lot of Gooners to regain pride in their club and its history. A lot of appreciation should go towards Tony and Walter for this.
2. THE WAVERING
These people love the club (or they believe they love the club and who am I to judge them?), they waver with every result. They are easily manipulated by the media and often take up the media’s hasty, biased and often wrong mantras e.g “Mertesacker is not good enough”, “Wenger has lost the plot”, “Arsenal will struggle to make top 4 this season”, “Tottenham have sporting ambitions while Arsenal has none”, “Wenger only buys French players” etc.
This group is fine as long as we are winning, but they lose all sense of perspective when we don’t. I have quite a good number of friends like this and I can say that they do genuinely love the club but can’t just cope with the banter from people around them when Arsenal don’t win.
They have no long term ill will against Wenger or anyone and the upturn in performances (both financial and sporting) have largely calmed them down. I guess we will always have to cope with people like these as long as we can help them to see the big picture in difficult times.
Also among these are some of our old heroes (They are passionate about the club and want success so quickly and so badly that it clouds their judgement in some of their utterances). They should be forgiven.
3. THE BITTER (AAA, D&G Brigade etc.)
Now, these are the people the noble Doc referred to in his write up about happiness. I’m not sure where or when exactly it went wrong with and for them. They have something against one or more of Arsene, the board and other staff of the club but mostly against Arsene.
I struggle to call these people fans because I seriously doubt that a true fan can do what they do. They mostly reside online and will always have something to complain about at Arsenal (Even if we someday do a quadruple, I have a feeling these people will say it came too late).
They are ably represented by two blogs (and some other pretenders that have taken after them because of their seeming “success” in the difficult times of the recent past) that I’ve taken some time to follow.
The first one is a certain site atop a dirty grove (totally unlike our emirates even though it desperately wants to be associated with that edifice) that usually has headlines about the club with words like “shocker”, “disappointment”, “shambles” (despite Arsenal being on top of the PL table) and I find it odd that most people do not see the attention seeking nature of the site with the use of such words and also that this site has never had something positive to write about a club it claims to support.
The other one is a site operated by someone who once wrote a book about Arsene and now claims to review the club; I think this person has actually decided to make money off Arsene’s person by any means possible. He was happy to make money off Arsene during the glory years by writing a book about him and now seeks to make money off the easily explained downturn in fortunes by fuelling the media’s narrative of Arsene having lost the plot.
This chap is also the High Priest of the cult of Steve Bould (who I’m sure would be the first to cast them into a lake of fire if he heard they were taking his name in vain).
I struggle to call these people Arsenal fans. How can someone claim to be a fan but can’t be happy when things are going well for the club they claim to support? How can you claim to be a fan and spread lies and disinformation about a club you claim to support?
I personally believe that they are more primed to make money by Arsenal not doing well than by the club doing well.
They know exactly what is wrong with Arsenal and how to fix it (despite not having any sporting achievements whatsoever either as players, coaches or managers) their suggestions have been shown time and again to be misguided and mostly unworkable, yet they persist because (I think) this has become a means to their living.
I personally feel these people gain by things not going well for Arsenal as it seems this is the only way they can have meaningful contributions on their sites as that is the only time THE WAVERING go to their site to vent their frustrations.
I’ve now classified all my Gooner friends and I take my time to educate the” wavering” among them but I think the “bitter” are a lost cause, they are too far gone and I think they will only be quietened when we win a trophy (in fact, I doubt if this will actually quieten them), more importantly and this is what I find strange, I’m yet to meet one in real life. Does anyone really have a friend who is like this?
Books on Arsenal at a discount
The latest from the Arsenal History Society anniversary files
There are also hidden assassins the Tim’s turned against the club and have done a miraculous u turn but most true gooners have long memories
More vile nonsense spewing forth from this site. With such a (ahem) high-minded concept as being a “positive” Arsenal blog, this is divisive, negative bullshit…You seem to specialise in putting these servile, agenda-serving posts up while refusing to serve, acknowledge or discuss any opinion that differs to your own. You’re the internet equivalent of the Tory party. And I just KNOW that Tony votes Tory 😉
Grade F, must try harder. Or at all. Or just stop.
@ Duduspace – very nice , I think the doubt and negativity in most fans is the due to issues of not really thinking for themselves and being of very low self esteem .
They want the trophies and glory to show their friends that they are wise and have chosen well and want due ( but undeserved )credit in all this reflected glory .
The joy is in the ride , not the destination .
The honors of this world, what are they but puff, and emptiness and peril of falling? Saint Augustine.
http://apactwithchaos.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Gibson.jpg
I don’t think Myles Palmer has ever claimed to be an Arsenal fan. You may not like what he writes, like many people, but he doesn’t claim to be anything other than an observer. As for Le Grove, I don’t see where the vitriol comes from; he’s a season ticket holder, goes to every home game, but he sometimes criticises the club and the manager.
Untold is a good blog, written with a love for the Arsenal that shines through no matter who is writing. It provides an important alternative view, and I for one am glad of it.
Ultimately there’s space for everyone, no need for this blog war stuff.
well said, Stuart.
I would call the last group “Commercially Motivated Fake Fans”. These are blogs that claim to be fans of a team, whereas the same person controls many such blogs for different teams… They start with good intentions, wanting to make a few bucks and make a living. But then they get lost in the crowd, and are forced into sensationalism. This is mostly common for Arsenal as for some odd reason, Arsenal has the most number of blogs.
Test.
@Stuart
This is my personal appraisal of what I’ve seen written on those two sites, I honestly struggle to call them fans.
The prime motivation for a fan should be the success and progress of the club they claim to support, not even a desire to be proved right (when on the losing side of a conflict arising from strategic direction of the club) should override this (as David Dein continues to show in his support for Arsene whenever he needed it with the media on his back).
I’m glad you confirm that one of them isn’t even a fan (why then does he write so much about Arsenal if not for financial gain? what else could be his motivation?)
What type of Arsenal fan am I?
Well I’m the type of Arsenal fan that believes Arsene Wenger is doing an immense job managing Arsenal, but also the type of fan that believes he wields a little too much power than is healthy for the club.
The type of fan that is eternally grateful for all Wenger has done and continues to do for Arsenal but the type of fan that believes sitting on your hands in a transfer window of a season that promises so much yet in which we are still a little short in a couple of departments is a poor judgement.
One that although undoubtedly has the long term future at heart also allows the present and short term future to suffer. A judgement based on bean counting that will likely come back to bite us squarely in the ‘Arris and the saddest thing is we won’t be able to say we gave it our best shot, because we didn’t, nope we ran round a few places in a frantic state on the 31st January enquiring after the likes of Solomon Kalou. I didn’t have enough time just doesn’t wash when you have a month I’m afraid.
I’m the type of Arsenal fan that is adult enough to read both Untold and Le Grove and know that both can be right and equally both can be wrong, all viewpoints are fallible yes even Wengers’ sorry to break it to you guys! Constructive criticism is not evil and can help the club if it is willing to listen.
I’m the type of fan that believes when you allow yourself to tie yourself rigidly to one opinion then sit blindly in that corner with hands over ears it’s never a healthy situation.
I’m the type of fan that has never booed, never abused a player (Arsenal anyway!) Never used the Y word. Always tries to take a loss rationally, blame may be directed but never in an abusive manner. The type of fan that then gets on with life and looks forward to the next game – possibly even not having typed out my feelings of joy/anguish in public for all clap/jeer.
Basically there are hundreds of thousands like me, neither of the rabid frothing waiting to lose to rant right or tin hat won’t hear anything negative about Wenger ref paranoid left.
Hundreds of thousands of us that fit into none of the overly simplistic categories above because y’know we’re like complex human beings with a thought process and without the urge to publically pronounce on all minutiae of Arsenal life.
@Brickfields
You are very right about that, but to be fair to some of them there is a lot of misinformation in the media and they are mostly misled. If you hear the same thing being repeated almost all the time by a lot of people (some of them positively associated with the club others claiming to be fans or observers), you may start to think its true.
Gooner Zee – this is one of the most curious notes we have ever had on this site. And it comes from a most curious email address too. I think if you would like to contribute further to the debate you really ought to explain yourself further.
Thank You Duduspace for an interesting article. I do believe a huge majority are in category 2. I’d love more in Category 1 but hey..that’s how it goes. As for Cat 3..well that’s been done to death here : ). On another note, did you get your username when Eduardo joined the club? Just thinking of what might have been with Dudu makes me sad. Genuinely sad.
I am a little uncomfortable seeing other blogs attacked, albeit in a thinly disguised way. Not sure why – I have in the past – but shouldn’t Untold be above that kind of thing? If you have a problem with someone’s blog then shouldn’t you take it up with the author directly?
My personal code of web ethics is still evolving and may be completely inappropriate…?!
I am just trying to enjoy being happy as the master plan that has been patiently pursued for the last decade is slowly coming to fruition. To be 2 points clear at the top after 24 games is an incredible achievement in the current climate. Absolutely spectacular. Of course, not everything is perfect, but most things are very good.
@Groverider
Then you fall firmly into the firm category (You do acknowledge that Arsene has done an immense job for example) but can you honestly say that any of those 2 sites have ever acknowledged this? if they did, why the constant cheap shots even when the club does well? why the misinformation about Steve Bould for example? Why praise others when it goes well (e.g the purchase of Ozil) and then blame only him when it doesn’t?
I for example also do question some of Arsene’s decisions (although I must say that in most he has turned out to be right) and I’ve learnt to make the allowance that he does know more of the details than I do.
And I do agree with you that variety of opinions and ideas is critical and to expose oneself to them is logical and healthy (which is why I periodically drop by those sites) even if its only to reinforce your reasons for holding a particular opinion.
Ultimately though as a fan, you do have to choose a side that you believe will benefit the club you claim to support and expose the motivations of those other opinions (as you perceive it to be).
More importantly, as fans we can agree to disagree with certain elements of Arsene’s actions as this is normal (I’m very sure he doesn’t mind being questioned and he does explain himself even when derided for it) but you and I for example can agree that we have a Great manager.
For Brickfields
A minister was invited to dinner by a parishioner who had a reputation as a terrible housekeeper. When he sat down at the table, he was dismayed to notice that the dishes were the dirtiest he’d ever seen.
“Were these dishes ever washed?” he asked the hostess, running his fingers over the grease and grime. “They’re as clean as soap and water can get them,” she insisted.
Reluctantly, he blessed the food and began eating. Finding it surprisingly delicious, he complimented her on such a fine meal.
After clearing the table, she took the dishes to the back door, opened it, and called out: “Here, Soap! Here, Water!”
why do some fans hate Arsene? that, I think will throw more light on why some are in cat 3.
Good article by the way.
FACTS! all arsenal fans should try to be in first category
Test.
Walter,
The comments are disappearing again!
Groverider
“……..that believes sitting on your hands in the transfer window….”
And you know he did this how ????
Bootoome.
I had that twice. That’s why I did the ‘test’ post. I thought it was me.
Very interesting read. I firmly belong to group one, and believe anyone who is aware of the machinations of the British media, FA, PGMOL etc should do the same too. I will give an example of my brother who lives in a third world country and supports Arsenal. I believe he belonged to Group 2, but hovering towards the lower end(closer to Group 3 even). To me this kind of made sense coz they don’t have many different sources of information, just what is copied and pasted and reproduced by their local media from the British media.
We had a good chat one day, where I explained how the media will make funny of AW while applauding the same if done by Ferguson or Mourinho as mind games, and all the other bad things like how the refs turn a blind eye to Arsenal players being fouled, but quick to punish them when they make the smallest mistake. I then send him a link to untold, and he came back after a couple of days saying he now viewed Wenger in a different light, as he was totally in the dark regarding what Arsenal had to put up with. Some individuals have access to all this info but still choose to blame AW, the board and everyone. Just to add to the behaviour of those from Group 3, they are the ones likely to be found posting under dufferent and multiple names. Why? I have never felt the need to post as someone else, because I believe in what I’m saying 1000%. This lot does it, and frequently too. I have said it before that these persistent and unwarranted attacks on AW make me refuse to see anything he may do wrong now.
I don’t think the way the other blogs have been described here can be viewed as attacks. The writer simply described how they view all things Arsenal, which isn’t untrue. And anyway, if it was to be viewed as an attack, its not in a vicious way, like the attacks they subject AW and the team to daily. Had I written this article myself I would have been less diplomatic.
jambug,
No, it not just you. The worst part is that it is only the long comments that disappear.
Stuart
Anyone is entitled to criticise but le grove goes beyond any reason . and personally I think anyone who can not see that is hiding something.
Someone with no qualifications should not be allowed to write utter tripe About professionals at the top of the spectrum. I think you will find tony and Walter can hold there heads high at the emirates and would receive many pats on the back not so for most of the pond life on that site I can not see there photograph posted on the site
Tells it’s own storey me thinks
Bootoome.
They was too. I don’t really do short that often do I. Why put in 10 words what you can drag out to a hundred I say !!!!
some so called Arsenal fans are pathetic to say this.you cant wish your team to do badly so as to prove a point.that is ridiculous.when Man City temporarily went on top by a point every doomsayer went balistic even from the British media.Man City is the team from another, so they said ,no one is going to catch them-they added despite that Arsenal was just a point less.now Man City is 2 points behind and what are they saying……bollocks.leave Arsenal to those who love it.Us the firm supporters.Thank you untold
some so called Arsenal fans are pathetic to say the least.you cant wish your team to do badly so as to prove a point.that is ridiculous.when Man City temporarily went on top by a point every doomsayer went balistic even from the British media.Man City is the team from another, so they said ,no one is going to catch them-they added despite that Arsenal was just a point less.now Man City is 2 points behind and what are they saying……bollocks.leave Arsenal to those who love it.Us the firm supporters.Thank you untold
As one of the longest supporters of our great Club, I wish that in some magical way we could all be transported back into the 1930’s for a while, just to experience the way in which the professional game was then regarded. And in particular, the following of Arsenal FC.
The attendances at football grounds were invariably devoid of bigotry and violence. While loyalty to your club was paramount, the opposition to your rivals was always good-natured.
And then came the Second World War which, for 6 long years, changed virtually everything and everybody in some shape or form.
The peace brought forward a search for a better standard of living for most, a desire for the more material things of life and a lingering hatred for those we had opposed in the conflict.
In the steady progression of peace, a substitute enemy had to be found and sport became the source. Racism and violence became the norm. Local derbies became places of danger and the comments published on sites like this clearly demonstrate the continuing real hatred between so-called supporters of Arsenal and Spurs. This hatred is NOT shared by the Clubs OR players involved.
It is sad to have to record an increasing dissatisfaction by a faction of Arsenal supporters over the way the Club has progressed in recent years. It seems as though, no matter what, there simply has to be some aspect on which to express criticism. If it’s not the Manager, it’s a player or two.
A bad result will result in calls for a sacking somewhere down the line.
There is no patience these days and those who claim that the price of a ticket entitles unlimited criticism are short-sighted to say the least.
What is needed today is a return to calm and loyal support for your club. Remember that football is still only a game.
If hatred is necessary let it be directed towards racism, cruelty and poverty and not to sport.
I tried sending what was, for me, a longish comment a short time ago & it disappeared; not sure if it was my error, my laptop playing up or what.
So this time a short comment. Regular readers will know I am a firm supported of AW and all that he has achieved. In the last few years he has struggled with financial restraints, some money grabbing players, a rogue agent, a little boy inside someone’s head, a hostile press/media and a small self appointed section of the fan base who arrogantly think they can knock him off his perch – yet he continued to keep the club in the top 4 each season – a remarkable achievement – made more difficult by the arrival of the outrageously newly rich.
@nicky
Like you I’m long tern Arsenal and have always got on with other teams supporters. I went to school with enough and it was just friendly rivalry. I don’t think I have ever criticised the club, some of the players and many performances, but have always been loyal. There are some supporters who perplex me a little though, and these are the ones who refer to Arsenal as “my beloved Arsenal”. What’s that all about? Do they expect to have their love returned? If they do then they’re in for a big disappointment.
Part 2. AW has clearly shown that he is someone who builds teams rather than buys them. He has built the present team despite money shortages and despite having to rearrange the squad after some desertions of key players – mostly for bigger money elsewhere. The present team is a very good one – but – I don’t think it is yet the final version. I strongly suspect AW plans a further tweak or two.
Re the AAA. It is sometimes hard to separate the opportunistic AAA from the waverers – they can appear and complain similarly when something goes wrong. Perhaps the difference is that the waverers change when the results are good.
Then we have the mindless moaning AAA who unremittingly seem to enjoy spreading misery at Arsenal’s expense. The seem only to be happy when spreading misery.
Finally, we have a very sinister type of AAA who seem to have infiltrated or organized a number of blogs and organizations and appear to have links with the media. Their ultimate purpose is to undermine the club, the manager and board – all to pave the way for a change of ownership in the mistaken belief that a new owner would throw money at the club. The sinister types will make use of the milder but vociferous and relatively unthinking types to further their objectives.
I detest all the AAA, particularly the sinister types.
I agree with nicky, it would be great to return to earlier values and fan unity, lets hope with club success the AAA will fade away and allow unity to return.
Inspired by bjtgooner, I’m sending my comment in bits:
1.
“Arsene Knows Best” is not a theological statement. It is closer to statements like “Einstein was a genius” or “Ali is the greatest” and other statements of adoration used by people for those they love and respect. The people who call Ali the “greatest” don’t literally think that he is the greatest in absolute terms. The statement AKB is not absolute either but it is very close, where Arsenal is concerned. Arsene does know more about the running of this Arsenal than anybody alive today. Does he get it wrong from time to time? Of course; and he would be the first person to tell you that. For me, however, he has made me eat my words so many times before I became a firebrand AKB that today, whenever I disagree with his idea or approach on the club, I always defer to his wisdom. And guess what? He has always come out right while I have always been wrong.
2.
On another point, the battle between the Internet know-it-alls and AW is not a fair one. He is accountable while they are not. AW’s decisions and actions are always under the spotlight and on those few occasions when he gets it wrong, he is vilified to the extreme by the media and the AAA with the wavering fans helping them along. But on the many times that he had been right, his antagonists, having been proven wrong, have always moved on to another issue on which they can shortsightedly blame him on. The fact that we are still begging some ‘Gooners’ to support the team ‘without depth’ that has led the league for 18 out of 24 games and is currently leading with 2 points with 14 games to go is telling about the type of supporters they are. The fact that the media still believe that the title fight is between 2 teams that have both combined led the table less than 4th placed Liverpool tells us everything that we need to know about the media, their biases and the absolute lack of interest in using evidence to support their reporting.
Pt. 3
As far as I am concerned, there are only 2 types of fans; for Arsenal or any other team: those who back their teams and raise evidence based concerns when such exist without going overboard AND the others. These OTHERS come in different forms but I can’t be bothered anymore to analyse their grievances.
Thanks bjtgooner!
Me too … bootoo … haha
1.
@ Dudu – I am sorry, but this is over simplistic in my humble opinion.
There are no “good” or “bad” supporters.
Like some discussion Bootoome and myself had a few months ago – supporting a football club is close to religion (both of us are aethiests).
You can’t really explain why you support the club; the things it makes you feel, are not rational; and you don’t change the club you support.
But like religion, and this is the main point, there is no “right way” or “wrong way” to “worship”.
If anyone tells you that “their way” is the “right way” (or god forbid, the only way) then know that you are dealing with a fanatic, a dogmatic person, they will not really listen to what you have to say, and are generally self rightous and annoying. And it goes both to the optimistic fans and the pessimistic fans. If someone told me that they don’t think I’m a “real” Arsenal fan, because I criticized the club or the manager or the owner or one of the players – I will politely tell them to f**k off.
2.
A catholic child grows up with a crucifix over his cot. My kids grew up with a signed TH14 jersey over their cots. No one will tell me, that they are a better Arsenal fan than me, and remain without a strong reply. And I know for a fact that some of the people who get a lot of abuse for not showing the “right” set of mind here, are true fans that have been supporting the club for decades, go to matches, and feel very strongly about the club.
god, I think I’ll have to go to 10 or so … haha
Supporter
An individual who is actively interested and wishes SUCCESS for a particular sports team
Amazing! What a load old tosh, poppycock. There are 3 types of Gooners?
I just thought we were all ARSENAL fans; and we will always have that love for AFC.
Your post lacks in humility what it offers in arrogance. Holier than thou…
Ronnie.
A.A.A
an individual who is normally ignorant odious and lonely deluded with small penis
@ The font.
I’m not too sure about the AAA. Does “it” actually exist as living people (as your post suggests), or is “it” a more generic term referring to continuos criticism by perverse so called supporters. I have my own opinions on this subject, but the bloggers would probably bar me if I were to say what I thought.
The font 8:43pm
Couldn’t have said it better 🙂
@TommieGun
Are you in honest mode tonight? Lets remember how you previously chose to represent yourself: –
“TommieGun
December 3, 2013 at 2:36 pm
@ BJT – if you knew me you’d know that I’m probably more dishonest then naive.”
You managed to self compromise your integrity with that remark!
Jax 8:09
For me it is my beloved arsenal and as in true love you should expect nothing in return, Adulation is earned you should stay in the relationship while you are being made happy you should offer all your support and never disrespect the one you truly love . Arsenal football club has taught me loyalty Gave me happiness and disappointment . Gave me a feeling of where I belong
Through the club I have met wonderful people (fans) of other clubs and arsenal who are like minded . In my job I travel a lot meeting gooners from all parts of the world . I have a better understanding of others religious views from the wonderful array of supporters arsenal attract I no longer judge people on the media fed propaganda but on my meetings with people from different cultures all given to me by my beloved arsenal
Wish all our support was like you, but unfortunately many of them are complete p****s. Keep the faith!
Bjt I fail to get ur point mate …
I am my usual self as always. 🙂
Sadly untold would not let me post the rest of my rant!
The bottom line fot me though is that whatever happens trophy wise i will always support the team. Hope to get the rest of it posted tomorrow.
Being in the US has some advantages, as the media bull is less pervasive here, although ESPN and NBC are doing their job on a regular basis. In this sense, it’s probably easier to be a cat. 1, although my roots date back to 1994 (I still recall Alan Smith’s goal against Parma). I guess the moment you start watching a team makes a difference, but it certainly takes much more than that to keep supporting it through think and thin. Sometimes I wish people could be easier to enlighten, but alas that’s not the way it goes. It’s enough though to know that the cat. 1 are holding the flag up.
@nicky at about 7 pm.
Here is one possible explanation of the problem you describe. In the 1930s people suffered but they tried to battle against the social causes of their suffering. I am thinking of the big marches against unemployment, rent strikes and things like that. Football was just a pastime.
Now instead of battling against the causes of their suffering, they turn their anger against their football club, or opposing fans. They are encouraged in this by a giant and ever present media machine.
@Nicky, Jax
I think you guys should write something longer and publish it here.
Why? My 1992/93 EPL analysis is stalled, but before it stalled I ran across a website (actually a few copies of a website) about Blackburn. This person had a lot of information, presumably experienced personally or from trusted sources. And way back when, he was editing Wikipedia pages about Blackburn, and got into an editing war with someone or some group. There was bad feelings, and so he eventually just set up his own pages. And part of this is documented on his pages (which is how I know anything about it).
One of the problems with his pages, is that he is in “first person” a lot of the time, and wikipedia really wants pages to be written in “third person”. So, it may be that he was having problems with the grammar police, as well as some other group at the same time.
But the feeling I got reading his pages about Blackburn are not like how you wrote Nicky.
Fine ladies and gentlemen of UA, here are a few caveats:
1)The 3 categories of fan are far too simplistic and in actual fact, many of us have , at one time or another flirted with a category below us….if we are truthful and honest.
2)The ¨existence¨of the AAA depends on their actually being a group of ¨supporters¨who would be daft enough (and share a common delusion)to constantly deride and demean the Club and its community, which they purportedly ¨love¨. My b elief is that a large percentage of the truly abysmal commenters are either opposition shit-raisers, juveniles who care less about Arsenal and more about their 5 seconds of notoriety, or Inet warriors looking to raise hell, muddy the waters and generally stir up controversy and anger just for the sheer joy of it,.
3)My acid test for the depth of and commitment to being a faithful supporter is well summed up by Groverider’s post. sometimes I question Wenger’s motives and strategies, and feel let down by the team’s less than impressive performances on any given day but all I then have to do is remember the Gunners putting Bayern, AC Milan, Real and Barcelona to the sword and my faith and hope that they will only get better returns.
My honest message to all fans,
To love your her is to understand her,,
But if you love her too much, you will destroy her.
The moment we stop supporting each other is the day we lose our humanity.
A civilisation is build upon moral values not by wealth.
***Credit to the famous philosophers who wrote this.
Good article @Duduspace…I think it is imperative that as fans, we also evaluate our standing in absolute terms as the kind of supporters we are…
Well to tell the truth, I was converted from a ‘Wavering’ category to ‘Firm’ by Untold…my philosophy about supporting the club is now completely aligned to Untold’s! We do not believe in getting down to name calling and mudslinging after every loss. And as someone correctly pointed out…the joy is in the journey and not the destination. After all how many times would we realise that Arsene knows more than most people out there…I think anyone doing an objective analysis of the trophyless years will point out that the club in this period has moved forward in leaps and bounds…! We shall think of AW long after he has gone fondly as a great manager…
Ronnie Lott
“Amazing! What a load old tosh, poppycock. There are 3 types of Gooners?”
Well, I think you vindicate the writer by your actions alone, posting under two different names. You post as Ronnie and also post as Brent Jones. Why do you do that? If you’d any belief in what you have to say why would you feel the need to post under different personalities. In my view you epitomise the AAA’s behaviour; creating multiple personalities, copying and pasting from other sites, ranting against presented evidence without offering a plausible alternative, etc, all designed to create the impression there are tons of fans disillusioned with Wenger when in reality it’s a few misguided individuals like you. I challenge you to prove me wrong.
@Pat,
I think people today are much more militant about the things they care about, as compared to the pre-war years.
This attitude was probably spawned by their parents and grandparents who lived through the war years.
@Gord,
Being somewhat old and senile, Gord, I found it difficult to follow the point you made. Can you make it simple?
@Groverider, very good post though I’d take issue with your opinion on the transfer window. I certainly think a quality signing would have been good, even a makeshift one like Berbatov just to augment our attack, but it isn’t always easy to get the best in January. I find it hard to believe that the club weren’t working on deals right from the start of the window, we certainly can’t be that unprofessional. Having said that I’m not sure we’d have got in Kallstrom if we hadn’t lost Flamini and Wilshere. I think Wenger is waiting for summer to add to the squad.
Will the failure to strengthen the team cost us the league? I don’t think you can make judgements like that, after all Manu’s signing of Mata didn’t help them beat Stoke, did it? Will it ensure them a CL place? Who knows.
After City’s loss to Chelsea I think the west Londoners would be favourites to win the league now. On paper they have the easiest run in. What may scupper them is if teams adopt the Wham approach and nullify them. Our away match at Chelsea maybe the defining moment of the season for both clubs. I hope we can do to them what we did to Pool in 1989.
@duduspace, what facts laid before them? Any facts are hard to ascertain regarding our financial power. Sometimes we’re told we have very little money, other times the board say they’ll back any transfer Wenger sanctions and money’s not an issue. Only a few years ago Wenger said he would spend 40 million on a player if he thought that player worth it. Obviously he deemed nobody worth it. Facts and football clubs are not comfortable bedfellows.
And slotting fans into your appointed categories is patronizing and simplistic. Plenty of Arsenal fans have far more complex views and many of them will stray into all three categories.
It’s all very well Tony slagging off every other mainstream news outlet but the standards here are slipping, it must be said. Pointless article. Was this posted for edification, or for advertising revenue?
Marcus and Rupert.
I’m glad you think the standards are slipping then Perhaps you’d go away and spout your negativity at the people who want to hear it rather blighting this site with your eternal whinging and whining.
Why are you here?
This is a pro Wenger site.
Do you see yourselves as Missionaries trying to educated the ignorant, misguided fools that we are?
That’s so sweet.
Do you think it’s working?
When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said ‘Let us pray.’ We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land.
Desmond Tutu
@jambug
Well said, but I fear blighting this site is part of their purpose.
@jambug, what negativity? I might have an opinion that differs from yours therefore it’s worthless is it? Do grow up.
And Marcus is a staunch supporter of Wenger if I remember correctly so why you’re having a go at him is anybody’s guess.
Rupert.
Ok your not negative. Whatever you say.
@jambug
Noting a previous rupert comment: –
“Rupert Cook
February 4, 2014 at 8:45 am
My comments usually kill a thread off!”
The term “Dementor” might be appropriate!
Untold Arsenal is a fine blog and I enjoy it immensely ( most times) except for its propensity and unquenched desire to try and categorize all Arsenal fandom into some artificially made up groups .
If I had Dollar for every time somebody on here uttered this ridiculous ‘true Arsenal fan ” or ” real Arsenal fan” fraze, I would probably have enough money to pay off the US National Debt.
Ok, maybe not , that is a big fucking number but I definitely would have enough money to pay for that World class striker most on here so vehemently oppose 🙂 🙂 🙂
Tom,
Unless you are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome, you can always stay away from Untold. There are Arsenal fans’ sites for which I abhor the kind of sentiments that you have for Untold; the only difference is that I stay clear of them but you continue to hang around here while continuously moaning about the place.
Tony does a bit of a sloppy pigeon-holing exercise, and rebrands the Good the Bad and the Ugly for our consumption; then I say this is naf, trite, and poor journalistically, which I think is fair comment, because Tony is the first person to pick up on poor journalism, and then everyone starts slagging me off.
Cults thrive on slavish devotion; first to the Group Leader, and then to the Chief Acolytes/Enforcers.
For the record, I think AW is an excellent manager, and an excellent businessman.
@TommieGun February 4, 2014 at 8:30 pm
I couldn’t agree more with your last paragraph- the self- rightousness and inherent sense of superiority in telling someone how to support their club is staggering- there are people here that do not attend matches telling people who pay to attend matches how they should be supporting and thinking. It’s like a person who has never been to class giving you the notes from the lectures you have attended- and then telling you how to interpret them.
Arsenal are not a political party and we as patrons do not have to toe any party line. If I or anyone else wants to praise or criticise Arsene, or anyone else at the club, it does not make us any more or less of a fan than the “I follow the leader without question” streamer who is rarely west of Stratford.
The author here said that on the basis of spending alone, Arsenal should be “nowhere near the top 3”. Where should we be? WE HAVE 4TH HIGHEST SPEND (WAGES AND TRANSFERS)IN THE HISTORY OF THE PL. Arsene has done a dcent job keeping us where we SHOULD be, and a GREAT job putting the infrastructure to be successful in place for the next custodian, and i love him for that and for all he has given us- but it does not mean we are not allowed be critical. I think a lot of it is the fact that a lot of now ‘grown-up’ Arsenal fans had never supported, seen or heard of Arsenal before Arsene took the job- he is like the grandad they never had and they feel the need to protect him
@TJ
Totally agree, though AFC were the Chelsea of today in their day; then AFC revitalized the team and the EPL by bringing a brand of football that was quite audacious. OK, there were passing teams before, but AW brought a new philosophy, not so much as possession in order to win, but possession for possession’s sake. This Proustian approach to football was fun, and he won stuff.
bjtgooner
So there’s six different types of fans outer now?
Holly shit !! , son of a bitch!!! I can’t decide which group I belong to .
How am I suppose to go on supporting my club if I don’t know what I am.
I think I’m having an identity crisis.
Tell you what, …. You help me solve my identity crisis and I will explain to you what TommieGun meant when he said “I’m probably more dishonest that naive” seeing as you have difficulty understanding his statement.
If I remember correctly , TommieGun is an attorney and as it usually happens with all good attorneys , his naïveté level is at about zero ,so it’s safe to assume that his dishonesty level is probably higher.
Perhaps he lied to his wife when she asked him if that pink dress made her look fat 🙂
@ Tom –
1. I’m a GREAT attorney, put that into the equation please.
2. I know I’m giving myself up here, but admitting to being dishonest is probably more honest than what more people would admit to.
3. One of BJT’s greatest features is the ability to dig up old irrelevant posts from the past, by other contributors, and try to put them into a context. In the court it would be objected to with “relevance, your honor”, and in my opinion, the objection would be sustained.
4. My wife looks great and never wears pink + she has a lie detector when it comes to me and/or our kids + she is a much better attorney than I am.
Personally, I think that Arsene is one of the greatest sports managers. Ever. Any person who supports Arsenal, and ever wrote that Arsene should be sacked, is a complete idiot. To make it into a fashion, and repeat this stance and make it into a motto, is beyond my powers of perception. I feel sorry for those people.
However, it does not mean that Wenger is immune from mistakes, like any other human being. So when people (Optimistic fans) are trying to make baseless excuses, flip over backwards, in attempts to defend Wenger (when he makes a mistake, on a rare occassion) is, well, not very smart nor very intellectualy honest.
This is just an example. Am I a “firm” fan or a “wavering” fan? I think neither.
I’ll give you another example. I rarely think badly about an individual performance of a player. Anybody can have an off day. However, there is one thing I do not tolerate, and that is not giving 150%, every second. When I see that the players are not there, with their hearts, giving absolutely everything, I get very angry.
Losing to WBA in 2010, at home, was one of those days. Do you remember that match? It seems like 90% of the team were pracitcally masturbating instead of playing football (sad to say, the only player who seemed interested was Le Petite Pute, Mr. Nasri). I cursed and cursed and cursed the team for a week. The apathy, the lack of desire and leadership, the fact that they seemed oblivious to the fact that this is the premier league, and you need to work hard every single match .. So in those instances, when the team does not play like a suicide squad, I would sound like the worse “AAA” guy in the world.
On the flip side – as long as the team give their absolute best, I couldn’t care less about trophies. This is football, no one guarantees you anything and like Brickfields writes time and time again, we are here for the ride, not the destination.
Hope I made myself clear
YES RANT POSTED !!!
@TommieGun
re 1. I never thought for a second you were anything but.
re 4. I don’t suppose many women do wear pink these days , that’s why I used it as an example. My apologies for bringing your wife into discussion (albeit jokingly), it’s never advisable to do that.
I’m sure she’s a lovely woman and she looks great in any color.
As for your original statement that prompted my response to bjtgooner , I though It was pretty easy to understand and a sign of honesty.
Nice love fest between the “T” guys.
We have Tom – who cannot answer a question with a straight answer even when pressed – voluntarily explaining that TommieGun has an honesty level above zero – which does really mean anything unless the scale is further defined.
We have TommieGun – who previously claimed to be more dishonest than naive now telling us he is a great attorney – but is he being honest when he makes that comment? I would suspect that if a judge in court was going to decide on TommieGun’s honesty he would need more evidence than Tom’s incomplete character reference! (Oh…..and usually self-recommendation is no recommendation at all!)
The admission of evidence in court does principally depend on relevance, including the establishment of the honesty and reliability of the witness – rather difficult to do when the witness (or contributor) basks in the claim of dishonesty!
Anyway – on more important matters – I’m pleased to note that you think AW is one of the greatest sports managers – I hope you in honest mode when you wrote that!
And Tom – six types of supporters – that not what I wrote – better check the maths. You still have not self identified, lets see you have a go at that.
@Brickfields There are a lot of nice things under a tutu and Desmond bless his soul, has a wicked sense of humour.
I was at the opening Villa game when we played against PGMOL. After the game I heard some AAA types saying spend some F***ing money. I asked them if they realised they were standing in one of the best stadiums in the world? ‘This is money well spent’ I said. ‘What we need is a couple of referees or a share in PGMOL!’ They insisted that it was Wengers fault & did not see ‘bias’ in the officiating.
They were angry, so must have some passion for the club. I was also angry but not disappointed as ‘you don’t know what you’re doing’ is such an inappropriate chant to a PGMOL official. The man knew what he did and he knew how much it was going to earn him.
A more appropriate chant should be ‘same old referees, always cheating’.
One thing that upsets me about our team is their inability to kick a ball!!! ooops! They cannot kick a ball. They get paid an obscene wage and kick the ball so far off target that I would demand a refund. Passing is impressive but a dead ball must be on target (plus or minus 10 inches). I watch them in pre match warm up and their technique is poor. Some players have some techniques and others have none, yet no one is able to shoot from distance with accuracy.
It is such an easy technique to learn and such an easy technique to impart. I offered to teach any of the coaches (free of charge couple of years back) but got a response that Mr. Wenger has sufficient coaches. I still get upset when free kicks are wasted. I am still willing to teach 2 players from any of the Arsenal teams so that the club will benefit.
BJT –
1. I am sure that if needed in court, I’ll put a good enough show (being a great attorney, etc.) to PRETEND to be an honest person, and convince the judge so. However, I usually cross examine or object, so my honesty is not really an issue.
2. I do not know whether you are an attorney, or not. I acutally don’t know what’s worse: you are NOT an attorney, but you watched some Law and Order on TV, and now you think you can write up some stuff; OR you ARE an attorney, who knows very little about the rules of evidence.
So FYI: Admissibility of evidence, is not effected by witness’ credibilty (it’s creditibilty, and not honesty, BTW). Credibility is relevant to the weight that is given to evidence. And as you probably know, dishonest people can be credibile, the same way honest people can come accross as not credible.
2. Speaking of giving straight answers – please provide a straight answer to why do you feel it’s necessary and/or relevant to bring up old irrelevant posts by other contributors. I’ll actually make it easier for you by providing multiple choice answers:
(a) you have too much time on your hands (b) you’re bored (c) you are the real life personification of Roger Hargreaves’ Mr. Fussy (d) you don’t get tongue in cheek / cynicsm (e) all of the above.
3. I’m pleased you’re pleased. We aim to please. No, actually I wasn’t honest about that one 😀
I couldn’t give a **** whether other Arsenal fans think that I’m a “good” fan or a “bad” fan. That’s actually my main point. I know I wear my gunner heart on my sleeve, and like I said previously, it’s not even about Wenger the great manager (honestly!), it’s about the CLUB. I think personally that the only thing that matters is to support the club no matter what. So we don’t win trophies, so what? As long as the players give out their best, I’m happy. BUT to suggest that because some other fan is a lesser fan than yourself, just because they “dared” criticize the club – that, my friend, I cannot accept.
It’s really important to me that it’s a matter of principle: I think “AAA” fans stance regarding the club, spending, and Wenger, is idiotic, ungrateful, stupid, lacks humility (I mean, come on, you played 2 years of Football Manager and now you know better than Wenger?!) and most importantly is self destructive. BUT I will protect their right to sound their stupid opinions (while pitying them).
A humour break here ,as work , wife , children , pink and pleasing were mentioned !
A man came home from work and found his 5 children outside, still in their pyjamas, playing in the mud, with empty food boxes and wrappers strewn around garden, the door of his wife’s car was open, as was the front door to the house and no sign of the dog.
Walking in the door, he found an even bigger mess. A lamp had been knocked over, the throw rug was against one wall, In the front room the TV was on loudly with the cartoon channel, the family room was strewn with toys and various items of clothing.
In the kitchen, dishes filled the sink, breakfast food was spilled on the counter, the fridge door was open wide, dog food was spilled on the floor, a broken glass lay under the table, and a small pile of sand was spread by the back door.
He quickly headed up the stairs, stepping over toys and more piles of clothes, looking for his wife. He was worried that something serious had happened. He was met with a small trickle of water as it made its way out the bathroom door.
As he peered inside he found wet towels, scummy soap and more toys strewn over the floor. Miles of toilet paper lay in a heap and toothpaste had been smeared over the mirror and walls.
As he rushed to the bedroom, he found his wife still curled up in the bed in her pink pyjamas, reading a novel. She looked up at him, smiled and asked how his day went. He looked at her bewildered and asked, “What happened here today?”
She again smiled and answered, “You know every day when you come home from work and you ask me what in the world do I do all day?”
” Yes.” was his incredulous reply.
She answered, ” Well, today I didn’t do it.”
Clever and Funny Word Play!
From…..
http://www.ba-bamail.com/Content.aspx?emailid=7983&memberid=763708#.UvOIcc4zf-Y
I admit, I’m a bit of a “Lexophile”, which is a word used to describe people who simply love words and love playing with them to make new and funny meanings. A competition to see who can come up with the best lexphillies is held every year in an undisclosed location: This year’s winning submission is posted at the very end…
– When fish are in schools, they sometimes take debate.
– A thief who stole a calendar got twelve months.
– When the smog lifts in Los Angeles U – C – L – A.
– The batteries were given out free of charge.
– A dentist and a manicurist married, They fought tooth and nail.
– A will is a dead giveaway.
– With her marriage, she got a new name and a dress.
– A boiled egg is hard to beat.
– When you’ve seen one shopping Center you’ve seen a mall.
– Police were called to a day care Center where a 3-year-old was resisting a rest.
– Did you hear about the fellow whose whole left side was cut off?
He’s all right now.
– A bicycle can’t stand alone; it is two tired.
– When a clock is hungry it goes back four seconds.
– The guy who fell onto an upholstery machine is now fully recovered.
– He had a photographic memory which was never developed.
– When she saw her first strands of grey hair she thought she’d dye.
– Acupuncture is a jab well done- That’s the point of it.
– Those who get too big for their pants will be exposed in the end.
@TommieGun
I don’t know an attorney who has claimed dishonesty even in a throw away line, so you will understand my fascination when you did so. Usually criminals do not claim dishonesty! (Most criminals when convicted, as I am sure aware, get religion with the hope of remission.)
As you are cross examine a witness you will I am sure from time to time have raised prior evidence or statements; supportive or contradictory; to what the witness currently puts forward. Need I say more?
I am pleased that you have again stated your support for Wenger – a good point to move forward on. I note you have gone further than this and condemned the AAA – excellent!
A lighter Church Moment
In a church in Umlazi one Sunday morning a preacher said, “Anyone with ‘special needs’ who wants to be prayed over, please come forward to the front of the altar.”
With that, Sipho got in line and when it was his turn the Preacher asked, “Sipho, what do you want me to pray about for you?”
He replied, “Preacher, I need you to pray for help with my hearing.”
The preacher put one finger of one hand in Sipho’s ear, placed his other hand on top of Sipho’s head, and then prayed and prayed and the whole congregation joined in with much enthusiasm.
After a few minutes, the preacher removed his hands, stood back and asked, “Sipho, how is your hearing now?”
Sipho answered, “I don’t know. My hearing is only next Thursday.”
GOODNIGHT, GUYS !
Bjtgooner
” Tom……… you still have not self identified. Let’s see you have a go at that”
Yes Sir !
I support Mr. Wenger and think he’s done a fantastic job .
I hope he signs a new contract extension and continues doing a fantastic job.
I also despise the AA, the AAA and any other number of capital A’s put together in a sequence .
And no!, senator McCarthy ( I mean bjtgooner ),I have never been a member of a communist party ( I mean AAA),nor have I had any association with any other members of that despicable and subversive organization 🙂
@Tom
I am pleased that you also are a Mr Wenger supporter and that you despise the AAA. Excellent.
I don’t think I have ever accused you of being a member of any political party – not yet anyway, sodium thiopental is back in storage! (Just in case you are a bit sensitive, the last bit was in jest! – I have no interest in anyone’s political preferences, only on the manner in which fans support the Arsenal.)
@Tom
“We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. We must remember always that accusation is not proof and that conviction depends upon evidence …..”.!!!!
@ Tom and BJT, kudos, this whole thread was a healthy combination of serious stuff and good jokes.