By Walter Broeckx
If you ask me what is the most depressing on being an Arsenal fan I should have to have a deep thought before answering. The reason is simple: I don’t find many things depressing when it comes to Arsenal.
Would it be the fact that we haven’t won anything in 5 years? No. I have known larger periods in the past where we won nothing. I think it is part of football that sometimes you don’t win things. And I even think it is a healthy part of football. If a club wins everything all the time you lose interest and the spectators lose interest as well. And that is in general a bad thing. If the excitement goes away the fans will stop watching. Unless you are a supporter of the club that wins it all. But even then it could get boring after a while.
Is it the fact that we don’t buy world class, top class, superstars or whatever you want to call them? No. I really like the fact that the boy from around the corner makes it to the top. And that it is your own team that has worked with him for a long time, has learned him his skills. And when that Cesc, Jack, Jay or Emmanuel becomes a world class player the joy of having seen it come over those years is much more satisfying for me than to buy Kaka and have him do the same that Cesc, Jack, Jay or Emmanuel are doing. And besides I’m not one of those people who wants to have the shiniest car, the biggest house just to show off with it.
But there are a few things that depress me as an Arsenal fan. And you could sum them up in a few words: some other Arsenal fans.
One thing is the fact that even when the transfer period has some 3 weeks to go some fans are complaining as if it has finished. Every day they whine about the fact we didn’t buy anyone that day. And yes it is nice to buy a player every day but where would be put them? There is not enough room for that much players. I know this is a bit exaggerated but every day they make the same complaints. Every day they want the manager to be sacked because he didn’t buy a player.
Another thing is the fact that they believe every rumour that is being printed on paper or written on the internet. That good old internet, well it isn’t that old in fact, which has brought me so much pleasure and has brought Arsenal right in my house whenever I want it or need it.
But this internet sometimes is like an invention of the devil. But when ever somewhere an agent starts a rumour about a player some fans jump around like madmen and wave their arms and legs around like John Cleese did in Fawlty Towers when he played Basil (and also in much of the rest of his career).
If player A is rumoured as a transfer prospect and he is unknown they are cursing and swearing because ‘he is unknown’. Most of them haven’t got a clue on players outside the EPL but if they don’t know him in person he must be rubbish. They consider themselves as the centre of the universe and they are God in person.
Well they could be the centre of their universe but that doesn’t make them God and almighty and knowing it all. I do follow football in the EPL, and also follow football in Spain, Belgium, Holland, Germany, France and sometimes I even look at an Italian game. But even I would never say that I know for sure that player A is good or is not good enough for Arsenal.
But some hear a name and if they have never heard of him he is not good enough. I would leave it up to the people who have looked at that player for a few times and if they think he has a chance of being good enough than it is fine for me and I will support this player when he plays for us.
But on the internet we have people who start articles full of disinformation about rumoured players just to show how bad he is. The followers jump on this disinformation and believe if as if it was the Bible or the Koran or what ever other Holy book there is, and declare the player as shit. And then they continue to bad mouth our manager and the board because he/they is/are so dumb even to consider that extremely bad player. And never it comes in to their mind to even think: “Now wait a minute, this rumour who has brought this up? Is there any truth in it? Or is this just a manager who is trying to make some extra money on a transfer of one of his players?” No, like I say they believe every word that is written somewhere.
But the thing that is the most depressing for me is other Arsenal fans giving names to our own players. This really is something that makes me throw up. Giving names is part of football. You can have names that express love for a certain player. You can for example call Arshavin after his four goals against Liverpool : Arshaboom. This is a nice name. You could call Vermaelen the Verminator. This is a name that expresses our admiration for the way he is playing his football and his no nonsense style. Those are not the names I hate.
The name giving that I cannot stand is that fans give names that insult our OWN players. Now maybe some people are really inventive with those things but I really would advise them to use it for players who are not ours. Me too I can grin when the call Rooney “Schrek” or something like that. I used the name Christiano RoVALdo in my language. The VAL word in Dutch is “falling” in English so in English I could have made it Rofalldo. This is part of the game and I’m sure supporters of other teams would do the same with our players and I don’t mind that they do this.
But why on earth would you as a supporter of Arsenal do this to your own players? I must say this is beyond me. I know that every fan has its own way of looking at players. For some Clichy is the best left back and others prefer Gibbs. Some like Denilson and others don’t. This is normal and I admit that I also have players I like more than others. But whenever a player puts on an Arsenal shirt I will respect him. I will use his name like it was given by his parents and I will not add words like “shit’ ‘wank” or whatever you can find. But constantly calling him by a name and add shit or wanker with it is disrespectful for not only the player but for the whole Arsenal.
Those people ask Barceloanus to give us respect and in the next sentence they say : “Can Barcelona not have Denilshit for free?” Now how do you want Barcelona to give us respect when even some of our own fans, fans not supporters, cannot give respect to our own players?
So the thing that is depressing me even more than a defeat of my beloved Arsenal is the fact that our own fans give our own players disrespectful names. It just shows a big lack off class from those fans and if there is one thing Arsenal have in the way we do things it is class. Unfortunately not all our fans are up to the same class as our club. And thank God we only see the odd character every now and then coming over here and do this over here.
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Elsewhere in the Great Hall of Certain Things
What did we learn from the reserve team this week?
Read the book that Ivan Gazidis recently took to his office
Spot on mate.
I have my impressions about certain players -but that’s as far as it gets. They need our TOTAL & CONSISTENT support.
Walter, I too have often been bemused by the whole anti-Arsenal Arsenal thing. I’ve reached a few tentative conclusions….
1: There are some people who through achieving little themselves find their own mode of expression is to criticise others. Of course criticism is a perfectly valid form of comment, but when the criticism seems to ignore a wide range of facts, it is a bit odd.
2: The world of blogging does give these people a way to communicate. Before the blog they would have been consigned to the back end of the bar, or a bedroom swamped with pizza boxes. So the negative blogs do attract followers who have always been there, but often haven’t been noticed much.
3: It is possible to set up a blog which purports to be supporting one club, but is in fact set up by people who are against that club. The writers lie about their identity and possession of season tickets etc, in order to do down the club.
This third point will seem odd, until we remember the cases we have had here of people who set up multiple email accounts and then have conversations with themselves arguing against us.
The fact that some of the Anti-Arsenal Arsenal blogs do actually remove or even change posts in the style of the Times in “1984” shows that we should not exclude any possibility.
We will learn more about these people when the first home match of the season takes place. The Anti-Arsenal sites have predicted a major collapse in season tickets, so it will be interesting to see what sort of crowd we get. I’m betting on most season ticket holders still being in place, and another full house.
Tony, Untold Arsenal is by the most straight talking and logical arsenal blog out there, I want to thank you for your endless financial blogs that allow me to assess the financical state of many clubs, and see that arsenal are among the best. I think we will do excellently this year, how much we win depending on how well Fabianski plays (I am adamant Wenger will stubbornly stick with his Polish Prodige, as we know Wenger will not sign another GK after putting so much work into him! :)) Thank you for your optimism and your stark contrast with blogs such as Le Grove!
sorry walter, I always get your names mixed up 🙁 Im sorry!
Probs the best article I have read all winter (being in oz) well done, this is going to be a great season.. I have high hopes.. Arsenal is the best club in the world and is run b the best manager in the world.. In wenger we trust..!!
We are all different, and should do what we can to remain so. Arsenal til I die
It is patently easier to critisize and tear down than to build and develop. I dare say one requires more talent than the other, more dedication, more knowledge, more persistance, more heart, more effort.
False patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel??
Keep up the good work and never let the AAA bastards get you down.
I went to the Emirates for the first time to watch the Arsenal-Celtic match, and enjoyed it so much that I have tickets for the Arsenal-Bolton match. I too loathe the way certain “fans” barrack players like Denilson, Diaby, Almunia, etc. Criticism is fine. But to express it in such unintelligent, kiddies-playground terms is simply pathetic. I wish to God such people would take their “support” elsewhere.
Cheer up, Cesc is staying =)
A team has to have principles and set up policies and for you to become a fan you need to be moved by the same.Arsenal forever
Walter,
You nailed it! And Tony has it right:the anti-Arsenal arsenal thing.
As a fan, you just have to love the club and its total philosophy. What is not to love when you see Rosicky or Wilshire display that Arsenal grace,confidence and tenacity?
Yes, I get tired when I read those purported fans who want AW to buy every player in the universe.
I have watched every pre-season game over the net(through Atdhe.net from here in the US), and the team looks great. AW only needs a back-up in the CB position, and on to a great season.
I completely agree in the most part and am certainly fed up with the football manager brigade offering whole squad changes for fantasy money esp given they’ve never personally scouted the players or know of their availability!
However, where I think it completely right to be critical is in certain areas where it feels as if the players, squad and club have been let down by not ensuring strength in depth and sufficient rest for players coming back from injury, our prudence and concern for harming development has sometimes had the opposite effect with the youngsters exposed.
I would also say that having Almunia in goal is unforgivable, yes he can shot stop, yes he has done well at times, yes he has improved but he is technically flawed in his near post positioning and doesn’t organise and command – young defenders need that guidence and it is criminal to have not addressed it since the champions league final saw his flaws exposed.
In conclusion we have so much to be thankful for and proud of but we are a little bit short and that cannot be ignored!
Fans are using 5-second clips on You Tube to recommend players to Wenger.Absolute MADNESS!!
To take Kiwigooners point a bit further:
It’s a fact that it’s easier to defend (tear down) than score goals (more of all the things you mention). That’s why great forwards and playmakers command a premium price. They tend to be more intelligent. Both tearers and builders are an essential part of a side though.
Maybe that’s true of blogs. There’s the tearer downers eg North Korean AA and the builders eg Untold. (By definition, the more intelligent :o) )
Over the years, Arsenal have managed to:
sometimes break my heart; mostly make me happy.
frustrated me to the extent that I want to throw bricks; mostly throw bouquets.
but most of all they’ve taught me never to believe in fairy stories unless they’re on the official site. (And sometimes, not even then.)
Well said Walter. I for one am sick to death of these so called ‘Arsenal’ fans slagging the club off when we don’t spend silly money on overated overpriced players like Jagielka ,Yaya Toure and even Joe Cole etc. Dont get me wrong they are good players but are any of them that much better than similar players in our team. I don’t think so.
I remember when we wanted to buy Shaun Wright Phillips for about £10m a few years back. He ended up going to Chelski for £21m. Our club got slated for not spending the money then. What a waste of good money that would have been if AW had listened to these uninformed muppets. True supporters will always appreciate how our club is run at the moment and this will be fully justified in the history books when we look back and see how many of those so called ‘rich’clubs who’ve suddenly come into some dodgy money are still competing with Arsenal.
ARSENE KNOWS THEY JUST DON’T SEE IT!!!!!!
There is one thing that separates our beloved Arsenal from other football clubs and that is our class. Unfortunaltely when Arsenal lose people have to point the finger at someone, Cesc for been a traitor, Almunia because he let a ball drop, Denilson because he turns the ball over to much, but it’s normal to make errors and people have to see that. As for mr.Wenger, people should realize that thanks to his policy our Club is finacialy healthy and has a bright future, look at Man U or Liverpool and compere them with Arsenal, I rather win 25 games in a trophyless season and be finacialy healthy than winning the Champions League and spend like Real Madrid. Frustration is normal in life but don’t be denigrating to our players they don’t deserve that.
Waz – but you have to conclude the piece about Almunia. You have to find another player who
a) wants to leave the club he is at
b) has a club willing to let him go (think Arsenal and Cesc)
c) is available at a price we can pay
d) has wage demands that are within the Arsenal policy – remember if he wants more than Van P and Cesc, then they will up their demands and the overall cost to us is going to be astronomic
e) has more than just one season of success behind him
Oh yes, and when that lot is done, we might also have to fight off Chelsea and Man C who will willingly spend trillions to stick him in the reserves and stop us getting him.
Arsenal fans complain all the time! And always go on abt we being a world class team,not winning anythng in 5 years. Its as if they just started supporting arsenal 4 yrs ago.
Only a handful of things about Arsenal depress me. One is the lack of vocal support or atmosphere at Emirates most match days. The last couple of times I’ve been over (and living in america, I don’t get over nearly as often as I would like), I’ve had one Arsenal “fan” hurling abuse at our players, and another who asked my mates and I to stop singing because “I’m trying to watch the match.” Unbelievable!
Walter, you bring up the point that fans get restless and assume that with 25 days remaining in the transfer window, we won’t buy anyone. I admit I am of this sort, but recent history tends to back me up, I think. The only last-minute summer deal we’ve made in the last few years was snatching up Silvestre, and we all know how well that ended up! Also, I don’t think anyone is asking Arsene to break the bank and sign 4 new superstars. Merely replacing the players we’ve let leave would be enough, along with a goalkeeper. I love Arsene Wenger, but that doesn’t mean I can’t think he’s a bit too frugal!
Walter- This is so sad. This is a wonderful website in many ways. But if its aim is to restrict discussion and claim that only an unconditional and uncritical support of Arsene Wenger is permissible I will not continue to visit it. I am sure you wont be heartbroken!
My view is Arsenal fans by and large don’t see other Arsenal fans as the enemy. They just get frustrated when other fans don’t agree with them- we’ve all got far more in common than Spurs fans- we all love to see the Arsenal win. We just differ in our opinions about the best way of achieving a winning team.
I live in a family where all are Arsenal supporters-e.g my brother is AKB and I am not- but we have a civilised rational discussion about the team every week and choose common ground and not differences that divide us. Why don’t you try it. You cant force people who don’t agree with you to support another club! Try not adopting the high moral ground because you think you are right. When Arsenal start winning trophies again- maybe people can start crowing again.
I will agree about one thing though I and all other gooners I know draw the line at the abuse of players of the club and especially the manager by so called fans.These are not fans.
Brilliant. Article. Period.
Big props to Tony, as well.
Sadly its the times of the internet and the non-stop 24 hour news cycle, as you rightly indicate.
All these FIFA 2010 fantasy managers(or whatever it is) think swapping players is easy, just like the video game. Well, dear friends, it is not.
AW too frugal? Perhaps. But let us reconsider that statement in these (unthinkable) days: Liverpool FC is the jaws of administration and take over – Take Over! – by the Chinese gov’t. Manchester Utd. is financially a house of cards. Roman’s checkbook has had a long, tough slog and may finally take a break. (and teh 25 man rule, it seems, played a role.) And the Sheiks have swooped in to “save” City.
AW, I would submit, is both frugal AND prudent.
Untold Arsenal: the voice of reason in a mad, mad world.
Cheers.
what you think of the cesc statement mr Attwood?
Let wenger give us one more World Class defender and a goal keeper
The Cesc statement just seems to confirm what has always been known. He’s under contract and he knows that unless Arsenal want to sell him he can’t go. If Barca had not been totally broke, and unable to raise any money, then they might have gone up to £80m and Arsenal might well have accepted.
I guess at the start of it all most people simply didn’t believe what ourselves and a few other sites were saying – Barca are so deeply in financial trouble they are teetering on the edge.
Remember that first story we ran saying that there was a danger that they could go out of business this summer. How everyone sneered. Next thing we know, all the bank loans have dried up and they can’t actually raise the money to pay the players, let alone find another £80m to buy Cesc.
So it all stops. Because the local press are in total denial that Barca is bust they will raise the issue again and again and again, and eventually he will go, just as Vieira, Henry, Anelka, Overmars have all gone for the right price at the right time.
But this was not the right time.
However we have two players who could replace him – Ramsey and Nasri. Neither is quite ready – the former of course because he has been Shawcrossed, and the latter is not getting enough time in the middle.
He’ll go eventually, and so will all the other stars. Fortunately, we’ll make a profit, Barca will sink deeper into financial mire, until they go into administration, and we have that little old production line just finding more and more and more wonder kids.
The only thing that stops the current process is everyone else going bust.
Tony, once again this site has proven to be the voice of reason and FACT rather than media driven fiction.Cesc has made an honest statement full of class . Just as Arsenal and Wenger have conducted themselves throughout the whole affair with class and dignity
Sorry to go of topic Walter
goonergerry, yes I can have a nice disagreement with “the other side”. But whenever I try they:
a) change my comment so I look silly
b) they start calling me names
I never start with the name calling and I just let it go most of the time.
But when it comes to giving names to our players and constantly speak about Denilshit in stead of Denilson, Van Pershit or Robin wank Persie instead of Van Persie, Diabolical in stead of Diaby, Clishity in stead of Clichy, and the list goes on and on and on. That is something I can expect of a MU fan, a spud, a chav, any fan but not Arsenal fans.
And I think I am entitled to tell that I don’t like this behaviour at all.
Last days I ended a discussion on some site where I brought up a few facts and the answer was dumb fuck and other nice names they gave me. I told them I was not going to discuss with people who call me like that but I ended with telling them that I hoped that we both would be celebrating a title or a cup at the end of the season.
No problem geoge I have the same opinion as you on the statement: He was tempted, it didn’t work out (for various reasons like Tony said and I can think of a few other), so I have thought it over and I think Arsenal is the best club for me for the moment.
An honest statement like you said and we all know Cesc will never say a bad word about Barceloanus because it is after all the club he loves.
Ok as I predicted the statement has come out and it sounds like something prepared by the PR team at arsenal.It’s an interesting statement and it’s not the heart felt, warm statement that I was expecting. There isn’t the classic “I love the club” and “feel at home here”…Instead we’ve got lines like “I have always dreamed of playing at Barcelona” and “it’s Arsenal’s prerogative not to sell me” and “will respect their decision”. It’s a professional statement, but for me, it spells the end of Cesc’s tenure at the Arsenal. It’s obvious that he wanted and wants to move to Barcelona – his desire is to leave Arsenal.Having read it, and read it and read it again, I feel sadder that this statement reads like a transfer request for next summer – it sounds like he is being kept against his will. Am I wrong?
This is probably the best Arsenal blog I’ve seen so far, I’ve been looking for a blog to read that isn’t so negative and sensationalistic. Look foward to reading many of the posts as I have just recently discovered the site. I completely agree, it is digusting the abuse some so called fans give our manager and players, “Wenker” and insults like that are just not acceptable or classy for our most successful manager ever, I can understand contructive critisim and debate but to just rudely insult with constant abuse and prophecy of doom is a dissapointing site, I hadn’t encounted so many negative Arsenal fans until I read some of the blogs and I have been an Arsenal fan all of my life, so this blog is an extremely refreshing outlook on things. Thank you.
Be fair though Walter, Denilson is a cunt.
Jonny – I am deeply shocked
@goonergerry:
The original post does not suggest that discussion be restricted or that “only an unconditional and uncritical support of Arsene Wenger is permissable”. I don’t know why you seek to bowlderise the posts of this website in this fashion, but it’s not an honest way to discuss matters.
Jonny, i to am deeply shocked , has someone raped your keyboard?
Jeerry – I would be worried if Cesc’s statement DID have the old “I love Arsenal” crap. Cesc is not stupid. He actually has far more intelligence than the average footballer. Cesc realises this is a business. It was always in Arsenal’s hands and the statement makes that very clear. The exact same statement will be released next summer as well if Barca dont sort out their finances and make a proper bid, instead of the insulting and derisory bid that they did make.
To me, that is the only dissapointing part of the statement, the fact that Barca’s silly bid is given credence. I think it would have been much better had the statement read something along the lines of:
“I have had many conversations with Arsène Wenger both in person and over the phone over the last few months and although the content of those conversations will remain private, the conclusion is that Barcelona never had the money to make a proper bid, and instead simply tried to BS the media all summer.
“I am a professional and I fully understand that it is Arsenal’s prerogative not to sell me, especially when the attempted buyer cannot even respect Arsenal enough to make a decent bid”.
I can understand why such wording wasnt used, however.
I dont care if Cesc “loves” Arsenal or not. All I care about is that he is professional and gives maximum effort every time he is on the pitch.
Enjoyable article (again), Walter.
The thing that depresses me about being an Arsenal fan is that, because I live outside England, I get few chances to see them live. Thank internet that I rarely do miss seeing matches – that would be really depressing!
And Jonny. I’d say the same about you – except I doubt you have the necessary depth and warmth.
victory through harmony. Enough said!
Great piece. For everyone that likes to call our players names like shit or cunt, look in the mirror. Football is a world game with tens of thousands of professionals playing around the world. If you think Denilson is so bad, what does that say about the other 99% of players who play at a level below him? You have to have realistic expectations about quality. It seems as though people like Jonny only rate about 30 players in the world.
The Ruler – just a little note – if you go to the home page http://www.blog.emiratesstadium.info you’ll get an index of some of the recent posts, in case any interest you. And you will see that we also group posts together in various individual indexes, which again I hope is of interest. It is not a perfect system, but it does help find the way back to some other discussions.
Coming up tomorrow: Billy the Dog on the Cesc statement.
@ Goonergerry – I am used to defending Arsenal to other fans of other teams, but it gets boring when people whom purport to support Arsenal say things like if we don’t get a new goal keeper – Wenger out, make unrealistic shopping lists of players for Wenger to buy, using imagined financial resources whilst reciting unverified comments as fact.
I don’t see why I should have to temper every positive I say with a negative or else be considered blind or stupid. I love being a Gooner and the players that bust a gut for the club. There is a strong anti Arsenal movement consisting of the FA, newspaper journalists, other EPL managers, match commentators and football pundits whom regulary try to put down our club and players. I agree with Walter I don’t get why Arsenal fans berate their own players so much as well. Debate and discussion is great, no player will get it right every game, neither will Arsene Wenger andd therefore cannot be above criticism – but not unmerited, unfounded, juvenile comments that are mainly baseless.
Yes everyone can and should have their own opinions regarding the club they support which may differ and the ‘blogsphere’ is reflective of this, therefore if a ‘supporter’ finds that they are not happy that there aren’t enough like minded souls agreeing with their point of view, maybe they should find another blog which suits.
I think this blog sets the baseline that it believes that manager is one of the best around and we are privilaged to have him, the scouts do a good job and scouting should be left to the professionals, coaching set up is the envy of most other clubs worldwide, is well run and has correct financial approach. As you will see from reading the many well written past articles, there is still alot of scope for insighful discussion beyond acceptance of these truths. The blog is unashamedly positive towards Arsenal and is thankfully a supporters oasis and respite from the doom and gloom onslaught, this is why people maybe percieved as defensive and protective.
*Also I think I have more in common with Spuds fans than Anti Arsenal Arsenal fans because they appreciate Arsenal players and would gladly choose a current or ex-Arsenal cast off or past their prime player over their current squad. The thought of an Arsenal player gets them drooling, even if it clear they would only consider it for the money.
I live in Canada and the interesting thing is how similar things are with big teams. There are of course the fanatics, people who will always support the team, but also are able to criticize with humour and intelligence, comment without insulting, and appreciate that even if a player isnt top-top quality, they are still special until they leave team X, at which time they rightly become a bum. Then, aided and abetted by the internet, there is the element that could only be descibed as constantly negative. If the team wins, they didnt win by enough, and if they lose, god help everyone and everything associated with the team. The managers are never good enough, the players are never good enough, players from other teams are always better, and these fans (are they really fans?) actually seem to believe they know better than the professionals who run the club.
Just the other day there was an article in a Boston paper bemoaning the relentlessly negative attitude towards the New England Patriots (a Boston team) by a large portion of the New England population, simply because the Patriots are no longer dominating and winning Super Bowls (they are still a playoff calibre team and are always hugely competitive).
In New York there are always complaints about the way that many Yankee fans insist on winning only and call any season which doesnt involve a Championship a failure (and people demanding big money deals should remember the fact that the Yankees spend twice as much money as every other Baseball team, sign every big name they can, and have won ONE Championship since 2001). Last year, when the Yankees finally won the Championship, those same fans that relentlessly complained about NOT winning, still found ways to complain about winning, by insisting the team were lucky, did not dominate as much as their financial dominance should have allowed, and didnt win with style. Does that sound familiar to many of us that bemoaned the complaints so many Arsenal “fans” had last season even when we were top of the League?
Who knows why these people do it? The only thing I know is that it isnt simply Arsenal that have this element. Go onto Man Utd blogs and you will read people calling for Sir Alex’s head because he didnt win last year and hasnt made big money signings this summer. “He has lost the plot” they say.
It is the curse of supporting a big club. If we supported Ipswich (no insult meant to Ipswich) this problem would be nowhere near as great. But big clubs attract glory-hunters, and glory-hunters cannot just support, they must see the club WIN at any cost, all the time. It is just a fact of life. In the 1980’s, before GG, the expectations of Arsenal fans were rock-bottom. Success changes things.
Tony- what’s your point? I repeated what the Standard said as it’s probably the truth. So, the Cesc/ Barca affair was a circus-agreed. Cesc’s comments today don’t exactly say he wants to stay do they. He wants to go because they are his first love and he won’t achieve anything with us when he sees the dross that he has to carry and the repeated weaknesses not being addressed. Now, if all of this is unpalatable to you and you only want to be on a site where there is universal acclaim for everything Wenger does. Which is not right
Regarding statements on the offical.com, RVP10’s comments are great and he is definately a future legend.
On the Cesc thing, I am glad he has come out and said something, comments weren’t as encouraging as it could of been, but I ultimately I don’t really care. Let’s see him in action to see if his disappointment affects his game.
I always thought Cesc would return to Barca in a year or two, Cesc and Barca have handled this situation wrong. Cesc has spent many months in a high profile superstar bubble and spanish media frenzy equalled to Ronaldo Man u, maybe even greater to that because of the World Cup.
Jeeryy – What’s your point?
jeeryy you took the words out of my mouth you theif!!
C gander – maybe you can explain jeeryy’s point then?
Touché! Gooneraside, touché!
But I doubt the subtlety of your final words will be understood by Jonny.
AFC1974, I have to admit, I had to think about that one for a minute. Touché indeed.
http://arsenal-opinion.com/2010/08/05/who-are-the-most-disliked-fans/
I must begin by saying that this is a very realistic article Walter. I commend you for always looking at the bright side.
However unfortunately, Ive mentioned this before, you once again fail to address the pressing issues of our squad which paints a complete picture on the real state of proceedings.
1) Our transfer numbers so far (in vs out) and comparing this to our shortcomings in the numbers department of previous years – has not been address properly yet. (Koscielny, Chamakh vs Eduardo, Gallas, Campbell, Silvestre)
2) The need for a goal keeper to come in, to firstly give us a consistent option at the back and secondly to be given time to get up to speed with the team.
3) Our defensive organisation. There is still nothing of the sort so far. This is an issue as we are so close to the season opener.
What is most amazing about these issues is that they dont need the bank to be broken. We could have grabbed Shay Given from Newcastle for a mere 6 million, we can get Joe Hart for 10-12 million Im sure. Mattheiu Flamini is probably available for under 10 million. This is what we have at our disposal, said by Wenger himself prior to the window opening.
Contrary to popular belief here it seems, I dont think Im being anti-Arsenal (perhaps you could get away with calling me anti-Wenger for mentioning this, but Id say that even that’s a bit much). Im identifying areas where we REALLY need to get our act together, because like a proud parent you prepare your child for all situations so that he can be the best, that you believe him to be.
Remember, speaking “negative” about a club is not being againt it. In fact, the approach of this site makes it the ideal platform to raise such issues.
Just to re-emphasise point 1 of my previous post.
Whereas there is still time between now and the end of the window, the need for integration cannot be ignored. So in effect the sooner we get our numbers in and ready, the better.
Would it be the fact that we haven’t won anything in 5 years? No. I have known larger periods in the past where we won nothing.
LOOSER MENTALITY- UNITED ARE PISSED CUZ THE DIDNT WIN THE TITLE FOR THE FOURTH TIME STRETCH.
Is it the fact that we don’t buy world class.
I Agree with you on this, i’ll rather have come through, but you cannot always have players come through every time. take barca- better academy than ours, more players in the first team, from the academy, than we, yet,they forked out 80 mil on ibra, and another 30mil on villa. you might want to wish them financial doom, but they would scale through easily.
AND ABOUT CALLING OUR PLAYERS NAMES- SYLVESTER WILL ALWAYS REMAIN SHRIMP HEAD TO ME, AND FABIANSKI, WELL .
There is no need for name calling, that I agree is a definite no no.
The issue is us sufficiently supporting our players, with extra coaching and reinforcement. This is the job of Arsene Wenger, and the fact that he is able to deliver such magnificent feats (top 4 status despite our rebuilding) tells me that he is more than capable of delivering on our final requirements which takes this team from mere top 4 ambitions to championship ambitions.
Boozy, you don’t need to shout. And let me tell you I don’t care if United are pissed or not. That is their problem.
Or better said one of their problems. Their debt is maybe a bigger problem or will be in the near future. Maybe they will face a period in the near future where they will be pissed off for a very long time.
And you can call Silvestre what you want now. He is no longer an Arsenal player and feel free to name him like you want.
The disinformation is just amazing.
I read on a Doom and Gloom site that slated the signing of TV (too short, who is he), that all along they always said he was great.
Then I read some whining about some Bosnian guy we aren’t even interested in.
There is a lack of basic intellect married with a willingness to deceive, and it is astounding.
To SA Gunner- Are you really serious? Shay Given or Joe Hart for goal? What we have in goal is better than these two IMO.
If you want Igor Akinfeev, I might consider. But then there are other issues-Is he available at the right price? Is his club(CSKA Moscow) ready to sell? Does AW believe he fits in the Arsenal system? How does he fit into our future plans in terms of our developing goal keeper? etc, etc.
@Bio
Come on mate, surely you yourself dont believe that Almunia, Fabianski or Mannone (much less Szezchny) is better than either Shay Given or even Joe Hart. Heck Id put them all in goal and Given would still do a better job.
Im all for goalies with Premiership experience too, as we need to hit the ground running in that department for what I feel is an important season ahead.
Tony-
What constitutes being “Anti Arsenal”? Perhaps its easy to agree on Arsenal sites that publish comments using obscene language those using fraudulent identities or editing comments being anti Arsenal.These actions are all probably illegal and certainly contrary to common law and challengeable as a result. They could also be addressed by some form of licensing of the name Arsenal by the club.
However is publishing reasoned criticism of Wenger? or the Board or their policies? “anti -Arsenal”?-Are you trying to argue that all criticism of Arsene Wenger by Arsenal sites is Verboten? What critiscm is not anti-Arsenal in your eyes?
gooner gerry – I appreciate you asked Tony and not me, but really you only have to look on a place like Le Gr*ve to read the AAA in full swing.
It’s mindless slagging of our club be it players, management, board or other staff. People overlook that the internet is public. You wouldn’t stand on a pub table and yell at the top of your voice that Arsenal is shit and the manager and players worse than Man City reserves would you? You better not when Arsenal fans are nearby anyway. So why would you do it on line?
Supporting is about supporting, end of story. Who cares if you or I think that a player isn’t good enough? No one, it’s irrelevant and utterly tedious. Who takes heart from optimism and pride in our team? Every other supporter that’s who.
Try reading a Manure blog and see how good it feels when one of them says how shit Carrick is, it’s great – woo hoo they hate their own players. Why would you give the same succour to our sworn enemies?
GoonerGerry
Reasoned criticism no – that is not Anti-Arsenal. But here is a perfect example of being anti-Arsenal.
A single person says he has gone from being number 30,000 on the season ticket waiting list to getting a season ticket, in six months and turning that into a story that says, the club is about to go bust, because people are leaving because of Wenger.
And all without one other shred of evidence, without investigating, without research.
I would not try to claim that I do hours of research for each article – but I do try and get the stories right, and look for the truth, and reason my way through it. Anyone who does the same and reaches a different conclusion, fine.
But just saying “can’t you see we need a new keeper” is daft, because it fails to take into account various other factors
SA Gooner – You have made your points in a reasoned way, without resorting to hyperbole and insults. You would surely not be classed as “anti-Arsenal” especially if you admit that your opinions are merely that, just opinions. For instance, I would vehemently deny your point 1. Silvestre and Senderos were poor members of our squad last season. They have been replaced by young talent such as Nordtveit and Bartley. I think that is a MASSIVE upgrade. Djourou replaces Campbell and Kos replaces Gallas. We have the same numbers this season as last, and better quality in my opinion. That is MY opinion. Everyone would agree with your point 2, but many would not regard Given as a better option and Joe Hart is unproven (and if a loan spell at a small club is considered evidence of how a ‘keeper does at a big club under big pressure, I have two words for you – Ben Foster). Once again, that is MY opinion. And despite all our injuries last season, we were far from the worse defensive side last year. We are built to attack, and so will not have the best defense, but when fit we should be fine. Once again, that is MY opinion.
The key with stating and sharing opinions is not to think that they have any special place or interest beyond simply an opinion. You have yours, I have mine. We are all Arsenal fans. It is when people say ridiculous things like “Wenger is negligent and should be held to account” when he doesnt agree with their opinion that things get stupid. It is when people say things like “Denilson doesnt deserve to wear the Arsenbal shirt and is a c**t and AW should be sacked” just because he doesnt agree with their opinion that things get stupid.
We are just stupid fans. Nothing more, nothing less. As long as we realise that no one with any intelligence will listen to our opinions we tend to be safe. But when we start thinking our opinions should be listened to, then we start becoming dangerous.
Paul C, yesterday I just wrote an article about our defensive numbers but didn’t have the time so send it to Tony and had to do it tonight when I came home. It is about defensive players and the ins and outs we have so far.
What depresses me?
1. That BUYING ONE STAR is impossible. This is despite Bergkamp being bought 12 months prior to Wenger coming, which appears to correlate exactly with the last great successes of the club. Most don’t expect 6 stars to be bought, but one is pragmatically sensible…and is quite clearly affordable….
2. That crossing a ball accurately is apparently now a lost art…….go watch Eddie Gray on YouTube Leeds 7 Southampton 0 c. 1972 to see how to CROSS A BALL ONTO SOMEONE’S HEAD. And keep score on how Arsenal cross a ball now…….. remember that the biggest bedlam yet seen at the Emirates required Eboue to land a perfect cross on TH14’s forehead……..
3. That Arsenal bug supporter’s PCs to steal their work yet spin that they ooze class. Either the work’s shit so bugging is unnecessary. Or it’s worth something which a CLASSY club would pay for.
That’s what depresses me. Just as it would depress Gazidis if I took his kids. That’s what is closest to his heart. Well my work is closest to me…………Mr Classy CEO……….either respect that or go………….
Tony, Steww-Thanks-I agree there are clearly some sites which do not promote the support of the club.
I have wondered if the constant scapegoating of some players does not directly or indirectly affect their performance on the pitch. Denilson gets criticised whether he plays or not-he has become a scapegoat for many fans-is that because of the internet?. Funnily enough a few weeks back there was a video of Denilson in 2006 against Spurs on Le Grove-playing with so much more expression and confidence than in recent years-of course no one person on the site drew that conclusion. I too had forgotten what he was capable of.-and that he looked a better player when he first arrived than he does now.
Rhys- There are plenty of players at the club who can consistently cross a ball-Fabregas and Rosicky, Arshavin for starters. Our full backs-especially Sagna seem to have a problem.
For me its the FA sanctioned violence, the anti Arsenal media-and other stupidly aggressive hate filled fans-like at Spurs, that prevent me from taking my family to the game when I am in London.
One thing that depresses me is that the work that the club as a whole and Wenger in particular are doing largely seems to go unappreciated, unacknowledged or abused. Its sad that people don’t realise just what we are building. Even in the face of huge challenges and criticism we show class and strength as opposed to being brash and disrespectful (supposedly a sign of strength and being winners, or excused because of it). And it depresses me that Wenger’s selflessness (yes! selflessness) is derided by some people who call themselves Arsenal fans.
I don’t know why I bother even reading Rhys’ posts never mind replying, they are so obviously just intended to be a wind up. But this bit
“12 months prior to Wenger coming, which appears to correlate exactly with the last great successes of the club”
cannot pass without at least a mention of the invincibles and their incredible unbeaten season. Or the last few seasons where despite moving to a new stadium and operating under severe financial restraints we’ve still maintained the coveted top 4 spot that so many big spenders dream of and challenged for the title in two of those seasons.
Never mind the wonderful success of our youth project which is just bearing fruit .
I could go on but Rhys wouldn’t care would you Rhys, you liar?
Top article Walter. Sorry I just got around to reading this.
Tony,
Why give some fans the honour of having Arsenal associated with them twice i.e. AAA Why not just Spuds in Disguise SiD!
Good article. It’s really depressing to see people who don’t understand the meaning of “support”. As for me, C. Ronaldo is the Modelista, and Rooney is Fat Bastard. You can sometimes name our own players with funny names – as long as they are not derogatory (aluminum for almunia, the panther (pink panther, re boots) for nick, etc). I am not saying I am not at fault getting angry, for a moment, at our players when they do something stupid – but that’s where it ends – a moment. Supporters should support the players 100%, all the time.
Which brings me to the other point – the management. I don’t think that the support shown to our players, should be extended zealously towards the management (and by that I don’t mean any disrespect or lack of appreciation to the prof.)
But, even though you dismissed that point made – YES, I do think that being indifferent to the fact that we won nothing for quite some time, is a problem. Not because we won nothing – rather, because when you examine the reasons, you know that it could have been so much better, at so little cost. We didn’t win last year because due to a horrific, stasticially unreasonable injury plague. We lost all our strikers, to play the 5’5″ wizard up front for 5 weeks (and then we had nick… who took some time to adjust). AW knew that we are in trouble in January. He could have had Chamakh albeit for some price. Why not pay that price? Don’t know (plus consider we sold Togoman that year, and didn’t bring in a replacement striker – even though I admit I didn’t think we needed one to begin with).
My point is that we are experienced in seeing what comes our way. We start brilliantly, and then lose players thru injuries – because teams are out there to knock us out, literally. But we cannot hide from that. They will do that because they can’t win otherwise. So why not get prepared in advance with some depth? Why release 3 CBs in the same year? Why not some transistion, and retaining one of them?
And my last point is the GK. I respect anyone’s opinion, but let’s face the facts: Almunia was never meant to be a no. 1. He is a good keeper with good instincts, but never grew to be a commanding figure, which is the other 50% of goalkeeping – organizing the guys around you. fabianski might be too young, too nervous, I don’t know. But he failed us a few costly times. The other two are way too young. And as anyone of you know, teams who win things, do it with solid GKs. A national team GK is nice, but not a must. But someone with authority, stability, and tendency to make a few mistakes is what we need, and I dont think that trying to pay 3.5 mil for a keeper (and no more) is a very smart choice. Plus the fact is, that our keepers know that the boss lost some confidence in them. it’s a psychological thing (albeit a bit unfair) but it also leads me to the conclusion that we need to buy (or loan) a knew GK.
All the best