Referee : Roger East
Match: Arsenal – Hull
The detailed commentary on the referee in this game, follows the chart.
Let me start by saying that in the opening 15 minutes Hull didn’t start to kick us as other teams have done this season. No they were rather clean even in their fouls. Some pushing and shoving but certainly no kicking at all that was wearing Arsenal shirts. So the ref had a rather easy start to this match. Arsenal was attacking and Hull was defending, not many fouls and the ref seemingly in control.
The only thing was clear to see that Hull wanted to waste as much time as could from the first minutes of the match. Goal kicks took an eternity before the ball finally was back in play. And apart from one signal from the ref I didn’t see him telling them to get on with it. But I admit that this is something that is not always visible when watching it on TV as they show replays or show managers or people in the stands while the time wasting takes place.
After a good start then it suddenly went wrong for the ref. Arsenal had opened the score and looked to score more goals and then something happened that was terrible to see from a ref point of view. Diame clearly pulled Flamini by his shoulder. A clear foul. A simple decision to make.
A defender is being pulled by an attacker then it is not about waiting how things will go on. No there is only one thing a ref must do: blow the whistle and stop play. The fact that he didn’t do this is beyond me. This is one of the most terrible decisions or non-decision in this case I have seen. Flamini mustn’t go to ground for a foul to be given. A foul on a defender should always be given! Because a defender cannot have any advantage when he is being fouled.
Now let us say he didn’t see it. First of all a remark that I also wanted to make about Atkinson in his Chelsea match. Are English referees fit enough to do their matches? A serious question. Because East just as Atkinson ran always in the middle of the field. And that usually is a sign that your fitness level is not up to the required standard. Referees should run in a diagonal line most of the time. Atkinson didn’t do it and twice touched the ball in the Chelsea-Arsenal match. And East might have been again in a bad position for the foul on Flamini.
But even if because of him not being fit enough and thus being in the wrong place him missing it, then there still is the assistant to help the referee. This was as clear a foul can be and the assistant had a free look on the incident. And yet he didn’t react. Was he instructed not to react? Or was he deliberately letting it go? We need to get answers to those questions. Either way the assistant can be questioned and I hope that Andrew has his name and will keep an eye on him when we see him again.
Diame then went on making 4 fouls within 5 minutes and still didn’t get a yellow card. Now that was getting silly. Persistent fouling even small fouls should get the cards out. And certainly when the fouls arrive in quick succession. Woeful from the ref.
In the second half the ref had a good moment. Huddlestone miss kicking a free kick, Arsenal trying to break and Huddlestone trying a cynical kick to stop the counter. He failed in his kick but the ref gave him a yellow when the ball ran out of play. That was good refereeing.
Once Hull went in front the ref seemed to lost his refereeing ability completely. I have seen so many real errors against the laws and the instructions that I really cannot believe it.
Let us take injured players. The instructions are clear. When a player is injured you can get someone on the pitch to help him. But you have to move him outside the field as quickly as can so that the match can start again. And it is clear stated that the injured player has to leave the field by going or being carried to the closest touchline possible.
So how on earth did he allow Dawson who was lying 5 metres from the goal line to hobble in a slow way all the way to the half way line after being treated with an injury. Sorry Mr. East but this is U13 stuff in my country. If a starting ref at U13 level makes this mistake the ref assessor will point at it and tell him to never forget it. It might have been a while since you done an U13 match but maybe it is time to think about what they told you in those days.
Really that is such a painful error to see from a referee at this level that I only can come to the conclusion that there is something terribly wrong in how refs are trained in the UK. And to do this twice then it is either he doesn’t know the laws and instructions and then you can ask yourself what he is doing there in the PL.
In a way that was even worse than allowing the first Hull goal to stand. This really is schoolboy stuff for any referee.
One of his tricks was trying to not blow a foul on an Arsenal player who then because of the foul fell in to a Hull player and then penalising that. Ramsey being a fine example.
As I was watching the match at first on a French channel I noticed they also noticed this and mentioned it a few times. Wilshere in that way getting a yellow card after being fouled first, nothing given, trying to make up for it, going in to wild, almost injured himself, getting booked. And all this because the ref failed to give the first obvious foul.
The best decision he made was to add 6 minutes of extra time. To cover the injuries (or feigned ones) that was about just enough. To cover the time wasting for 90 minutes surely not.
So the points: A first time score of 72% overall. Not that good and when we put weight on to it it goes down to only 58%. Allowing the goal from Hull to stand counting heavily of course. Only getting 50% of the important decisions correct.
The second half he got an overall score of just under 62%. So even worse. But because of the correct goals he won some points when we put weight on the decisions and it goes up to a still very low 64%. If we only look at the important decisions we see him have a score of 50%.
So the total score of this referee was 66,67% in total. When we put weight on the decisions it goes down to 61,54%. And only looking at the important decisions he gets a final score of 50%.
Bias score : with the wrongly awarded goal it is no surprise the important decisions went to Hull. Only a few small decisions went in favour of Arsenal. An unbalanced performance from the ref.
Was it just a bad day at the office for referee East? Or is he just another one from the bad production line that is called the PGMOL?
We didn’t know what to expect from this new ref in our preview but going by this we can now expect the worse in the future.
The 2nd half score and total score for important decisions, both weighted and normal, should be slightly higher as your calculations seems to have missed out on one of the 2nd half goals. The refs score for important decisions should then be closer to his overall score, which implies a bad game allround, but slightly better numerically than what the numbers show now.
I will check the numbers Marius.
yes it should have been 3/4 goals correct. I will check the model to see if there has been an error in the internal links
Typical Whinging Gooner. Forget the miles offside Gallas goalgiven by Mike Riley (QF 2009, forget the freekick that never was given for Cazorla to get Arsenal on the scoresheet in Cup Final 2014, forget the blind Mike Rilet missing Fabregas’ antics in 2009) and whinge about Flamini being outmuscled.) At the moment you’re just not good enough!!
Thanks for this perfect analysis of the official…yes we didn’t know what to expect, but what we have come to expect is a continuous, somehow coincidental sequence of such officiating. The pattern is so clear now that it moves far away from incompetence and much closer to something underground.
The level of officiating in Premiership is very bad expecially against Arsenal, let take Chelsea game as an example, there was a clear hand ball by Fabregas in d bus with full glare of d man in charge, he claimed not to see it, even when the players protest. Fabregas did exactly the same thing the last season he played for Arsenal against Tottenham and a penalty was awarded in favour of Tottenham before he moved to Barcelona. There was another foul on Sanchez by Cahil that should have been a red card, the ref changed the rule and offered just yellow card. Is it that these refs are allergic to Arsenal
Adding time for injuries and bookings is a fairly straightforward thing to do as you can check your watch but adding it for time wasting is much more a matter of judgement as ‘play’ goes on. Wouldn’t giving that job to the fourth official make sense and take some pressure off the ref?
seems a damning review or what was a completely unacceptable performance by the officials, and yet again…we are on the receiving end of key decisions, time wasting and rotational fouling.
But, dont forget, it all evens itself out in the end, there is no agenda, no bias…..so we can look forward to seeing much fairer, indeed in the light of the refs so far this year, even favourable performances in the next 6-7 games then!
A good report which shows just how incompetent or biased this ref was. The wrong decision on the Diame goal seemed to make Diame think he could foul when he wanted.
I hope we do not see East or like again – probably a forlorn hope!
I still believe all this time wasting nonsense is so easy to deal with using the American Football model as the example – time only ticks by when the ball is in play. So easy for the 4th official to do something that justifies their existence.
So, for me 30 minutes each half ball in play in all top flight football where 4th officials are used leaving club level football at 45 minutes as per now. By the way the game clock needs to be visible so the fans can verify the clock has stopped or been restarted in case the 4th official cannot even handle an on/off button!
4th Official games tend to be where there are paying customers and they are entitled to see games without ridiculous time wasting.
The other issue with this ref is his decision (or non decision) making and that is a question of inadequate experience and/or training but even with that the ONLY way forward again for TV available games is video checking even if its down to the each side being allowed 3 challenges (again as per American Football although not sure about the # of challenges).
I’ve been going to football (Arsenal) for over 50 years now and I am not sure how much longer I can handle the injustices of the game that from so many views has stagnated. Talk is often about an exciting game these days especially of course on Sky TV but so often the exciting bit is because of major decisions being wrong!
Great post as always. Mr East was, at best, incompetent and at the risk of the ire of the anti-conspiracy theorist, bent and biased. How his assistant missed the Diame foul defies logic. For two men employed to spot such infringements, to miss that, was inexcusable. It should embarrass hid employers. But we are not talking of normal members of the homo sapiens here. These men (if you can call them that) live completely insulated from reality as the rest of us know it. Continual silence from the pgmol is an eloquent testament to how far removed from normal feelings they are. It is clear that they are a disgrace andd will continue to bring the game to disrepute if this mess continues. Has society in general not lost all sense of decency? If this can go on for this long, how come normal sense of propriety suddenly become a stranger to all? UA is actually proving to be a rare last fronier for sanity and propriety. Or is it just me feeling this way?
it seems strange that the Wiltshire booking was skimmed over!!By saying it should have been a free kick to Arsenal before so it would not have happened!!two wrongs don’t make a right!! Wiltshire if he never play acted would have had RED !For a brutal tackle which almost crippled himself!
As for the remarks about Dawson play acting! He is out for a considerable time injured!!
The time wasting?? Arsenal got 7 minutes extra time!! The longest I have seen this year,
@Stan The Man
October 21, 2014 at 3:38 pm
Completely agree with you!!! Have said much the same in several of my posts here on UA; and earlier today a certain ‘MikeT’, ‘warned’ me/us (who tend to be of the same opinion) with “…you are now very close to possibly committing libel* where is your evidence be it circumstantial or otherwise…”!!!
If what we have provided is not circumstantial evidence – then I don’t know what is!
*liable (I assume he means)
Maybe this ref was lacking fitness- and needed the time wasting to get a breather
It unfortunate there is something about Arsenal that English refs don’t like. Everton,Chelsea and now Hull City games, I’m angry no one seems to talk to them.
@Mandy Dodd
October 21, 2014 at 4:16 pm
🙂 🙂
I have been reading Untold now for well over a year and I rarely find it possible to disagree with most of what is written. However, whilst I am as concerned as most of you over most of what I read, I do almost always find myself questioning it. Especially the ‘conspiracy theories’.
Not because I disagree with the evidence, I go to all the home games so see it all for myself. What intrigues me is whether or not the views of UA and are shared by supporters of other teams.
I suspect they largely are and if I am right it points away from a conspiracy against Arsenal for which I struggle to find sufficient motive to support, and more towards either incompetency being covered up to protect the (incomes of the) guilty or something sinister going on in the media to support their commercial interests.
I am seriously interested in how other teams see the officiating and media coverage because without that balancing viewpoint much of the UA ‘evidence’ loses some of it’s value.
How we get those alternative views in as objective a way as possible, I don’t know…
Just as Atkinson the other day 🙂
yes, Atkinson did have that air about him.
Also, with Oscar, Atkinson came across as one of the most star struck refs I have ever seen….at least since the days when Riley shared a pitch with Giggs and Keane
@Mandy Dodd
October 21, 2014 at 4:49 pm
hahahahaha
mind now – names will get us in trouble (MikeT) 🙂 🙂
Clarente Tiger. I don’t think any of those things are forgotten. You should read the Referee Decisions web site to see just how widely we have cast the net. By selecting four decisions (rightly or wrongly) from the tens of thousands a week, you make rather a poor case I feel.
@ Walter, you might want to have a read of
https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/pitchside-europe/are-referees-prone-to–evening-things-up-033607989.html
That is a worrying point you raise about possible poor training, Walter.
Unlike some other countries, there is a general tendency in Britain for training to be a rather makeshift and unreliable business. This would just add to the many problems about PL refereeing that this site has drawn attention to many times.
Maybe this is more suited to the referee incompetence collusion article a couple of days ago. But listening to the Monday Night Football Club podcast on iplayer (yesterday’s show) it seems to be referee collusion.
The presenters seemed to suggest that this goes on all of the time at their training centre. Going through pro zone with their mates and deciding how they’ll referee the coming matches. I think that it was Graham Poll was on. He also stated that the was now no leadership from above.
Excellent report and assessment. He never dealt with the time wasting by Hull and the Flamini foul was the worst decision I have witnessed. Time wasting throughout the game is designed to interrupt the opponents rhythm and building up a head of steam. Its an admission by Hull and their manager they were not good enough to take us on in a fair game. Every time a Hull player fell to the ground Bruce looked at his watch…An additional six minutes at the end does not make this right. After match replays show Diame having a chuckle with his team mate after he scored. The best one of all was the referee when questioned by Mertersacker after the game shrugged his shoulders and mouthed he did not see it. Apparently the lino bang in line was the only person this side of the stadium who did not see it either. No conspiracy just poor officiating
Mr East’s performance stank The Emirates out.
It wasn’t so much the key wrong decisions that he made but more the “spirit” of his performance. We’ve seen it before and we will see again.
Slightly off topic but Man City captain Vincent Kompany comments after today’s Uefa Champions League result make for interesting reading.
“It leaves a lot of bad feelings,” he added. “I guess at the moment everyone wants to hear how we think we should have done better and how we feel our performances need to be better in Europe, but I won’t play a part in it.”
“The chance in the first half (for Edin Dzeko) was a stonewall penalty and probably a sending off, and I don’t wish that on anyone, but they were the facts. In the second half, I don’t understand why the referees want to be heroes, and I’m sure he started the game wanting to do well, but common sense should be prevail.”
Re my email to Arsenal FC, following is the reply I received:
“Thank you for emailing Arsenal Football Club.
Following this automated response, your enquiry will be processed within 3 days however if the enquiry requires investigation, please allow 5 – 10 working days for a response. (External product and service offers/enquiries may not receive a response).
Please note also that the Contact Centre opening hours are from 09.30hrs to 17.00hrs Monday to Friday. Timescales will vary for emails received outside the Contact Centre opening hours including weekends.”
@apo
I have had the same response. On previous occasions when I emailed the club I have received the automated response almost immediately, followed later by a considered response, so I am confident there is more to come.
@bjtgooner
October 22, 2014 at 10:21 am
Well hope many of us have sent an email with this issue (unfair ref decisions – costing the team points) to the e-mail address. For sure its not only 2 or 3 people who feel this way, we must be in our thousands.
In which case we may get a response fitting to our concerns? who nows!
*knows!
Arsenal has been in CL for well over 15 years; I would love to have statistical data on the amount of serious injuries we have sustained during all those games in Europes’ top level football. I would imagine its nowhere close to what we get in the PL or indeed in English competitions due to referee incompetence/unwillingness to protect players.
Good report, Walter.
I noticed in the preview that this ref hasn’t had many matches. At the time I thought, unless he messes up the match in favour of Hull, he’ll not get many more matches. In that respect – he ‘done good’.
It goes on.
On the referee topic but off topic for this review.
I will include a link about a video in which the VRT (Flemish Radio and Television) got access to the wireless devices from the ref and his assistants.
This was filmed in the match Antwerp – Zulte Waregem (current team of former Gunner Aneke btw).
For me it is a bit special as I did a match at the same ground between Antwerp and another Jupiler League team only a few months ago also using the microphone and ear system.
It has subtitles for a big part but of course they are in Dutch. But it gives you a good impression on how much referees and assistants talk with each other when they have that system.
http://sporza.be/cm/sporza/videozone/sporten/voetbal/MV-141022-testbeeld-scheidsrechter-vertenten?playlist=7.39483
@Walter
Keith Hackett presents an analysis of key decisions on a selection of games played in the Premier League.
You are the Ref – Ref show 10
Mark Halsey & Keith Hackett analysis of foul on Flamini before Diame goal.
Mark
“It’s a clear foul………Someone, the Assistant or Roger should have seen that……..he’s just not a PL referee.”
Keith
“Hey listen! I’ve actually taken referees off the list, were more competent than 1 or 2 of these referees in this Select Group currently”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywQzoAqpGgI&feature=player_detailpage#t=949
There are other “Ref Shows” from the start of the season.